Ship to Ship combat

rway218 · May 30, 2015, 07:00:56 PM

When getting ships for ship to ship combat (RPG not miniature) do you prefer:

A) Basic designs with power points that can be spent in areas (shields, hull, etc) as you wish

b) Structured ships with all points already set for each ship

c) doesn't matter as long as the rules are done well

Ex. Say I have a tank size attack vehicle. Should the game tell me how much Shielding, weapons, and such / let me spread out a pool of point to my systems

Spinachcat · May 30, 2015, 07:42:12 PM

FOR ME, I always return to the ship-to-ship combat in Classic Traveller as my model that I have bastardized for many other RPG games.

The big issue is that you want to engage all the PCs in the vehicle, which can be difficult sometimes. Sometimes, half the crew just has to strap in and hold on. However, if possible, dream up ways for the PCs to be useful and certainly engage the players' ideas on what their PCs could be doing.

As inspiration, watch action scenes in movies where the whole team is involved.

Here's my first suggestion...freeway chase from Matrix Reloaded:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8OZpmIWcxg

What images/videos do you crazy kids imagine for vehicular combat that engages all the PCs?

jeff37923 · May 30, 2015, 07:42:14 PM

Quote from: rway218;834080When getting ships for ship to ship combat (RPG not miniature) do you prefer:

A) Basic designs with power points that can be spent in areas (shields, hull, etc) as you wish

b) Structured ships with all points already set for each ship

c) doesn't matter as long as the rules are done well

Ex. Say I have a tank size attack vehicle. Should the game tell me how much Shielding, weapons, and such / let me spread out a pool of point to my systems

I prefer B, mainly because it helps with immersion in role-playing outside of combat. However, B also can encompass A with ships that have power allocation and management during combat within set parameters for the particular class of ship.

EDIT: For example, in FASA's Star Trek Starship Combat Simulator, which was part of their Star Trek RPG, you could allocate power to engines or shields or weapons from a basic pool. Some ships were better than others at certain missions, a Saladin-class Destroyer could pump more power into weapons and shields than a Nelson-class Scout, even though they both had the same power plant IIRC.

Xavier Onassiss · May 30, 2015, 08:43:19 PM

I moved away from power points altogether for my latest setting, and went with the assumption that starships have more than enough power for their needs. Instead, the risk/reward for the starship crew is based on how hard they're willing to push everything.

Weapons will do extra damage with more power running into them, but they'll burn out if pushed too hard.

And there are no inertial compensators in this setting, so pushing the engines too hard is really tough on the crew. And the engines.

The thing is, my players find these kind of decisions more fun. They'd rather take a gamble on pushing their ship/crew a little harder to win the battle than spend the first part of every turn haggling over who gets more power points.

Skarg · May 31, 2015, 09:45:52 PM

I want both a consistent set of rules / explanations for how things work and interact, and examples of a full range of ship classes using those rules, as well as to be able to create new and modified ship designs without having holes in my understanding. I want to be able to use the ship's stat's, status, and crew abilities, to game out maneuvers, combat, a variety of ship damage and emergencies, operations (supplies used/needed, and maintenance) and boarding combat.

David Johansen · June 01, 2015, 08:30:54 PM

Something solid and physics based like GURPS Vehicles or Fire Fusion and Steel.

Putting in sufficient power is just another design choice.

Shawn Driscoll · June 02, 2015, 06:30:47 AM

Ship rules need to fit in well with the rest of an RPG's rules. Not just bolted on.

RPGPundit · June 03, 2015, 02:55:28 PM

I prefer something as absolutely simple as possible.

rway218 · June 06, 2015, 06:33:58 PM

I've been leaning to a basic design per class of ship that has a defined power structure.

I would list upgrades for ships (and a cost for each) that add to the standard.

Then use battery (or other power source) to reinforce power systems, and a damage control to rebuild systems. These would be expendables not renewable items purchased or restocked (depending on the world government setting) at port.

The weapon systems would work off the expendable system (unless it is power based, then it would be recharged off the power system)

Just spit balling here, but how SIMPLE is too simple?

Also how COMPLEX would be too complex?

Matt · June 06, 2015, 08:06:50 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;834083I prefer B, mainly because it helps with immersion in role-playing outside of combat. However, B also can encompass A with ships that have power allocation and management during combat within set parameters for the particular class of ship.

EDIT: For example, in FASA's Star Trek Starship Combat Simulator, which was part of their Star Trek RPG, you could allocate power to engines or shields or weapons from a basic pool. Some ships were better than others at certain missions, a Saladin-class Destroyer could pump more power into weapons and shields than a Nelson-class Scout, even though they both had the same power plant IIRC.

No Saladin class in FASA Trek, I presume you mean the Larson class destroyer which Mk VI and Mk VII had the same FWC-2 warp engine as the Nelson class scout Mk V and Mk VII. Both had 20 power units. The Larson could put more power into weapons because it had more weapons to put power into.

Matt · June 06, 2015, 08:18:56 PM

On that topic, FASA Trek had a really good ship combat system if you wanted tactical-level decision-making as well as something for all the PCs to do.

If ships are going to have set stats, a good variety of types and Mks is nice for variety and is also cool because sometimes you'll see a ship of a certain type but not be sure as to which Mk it is and what weapons/engines/shields it has. For instance, a Mk I Larson compared to a Mark V is quite a change in fighting ability.

Ravenswing · June 07, 2015, 03:34:52 PM

I used to do a good bit more complex, and went from there to the abstract system put out in 3rd edition GURPS, which runs from the basic principle that parties care a good bit less about how complex the ship stats are than how the PCs interact with and are affected by combat.

Spinachcat · June 08, 2015, 03:48:48 AM

The RPG/boardgame hybrid BATTLESTATIONS is a good product to consider if you want to a good team tactics aboard a spaceship.

RPGPundit · June 10, 2015, 02:42:10 AM

I've never found any ship-to-ship combat rules that I thought were really quite right for me. Most of the time I'll largely just wing it.

rway218 · June 11, 2015, 07:36:00 PM

I never understood why systems like starfleet battles never let you move power from one shield to another (as I remember the game from 1993).

One of the ways I am thinking of doing this in Red Death is having the shields weaken all over, as if compensating for every side at once. Even allowing the batteries to be used to strengthen them during combat

Also, to allow targeted system attacks with live damage control point pools.