That's okay, some of my favorite people are Kiwis:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1797[/ATTACH]

Guy posted a new version. New archetypes added:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByF9qkt14FlUeHBRTTFCZGxZTVE

Quote from: CRKrueger;1000923With a good GM though, most of the cool stuff Sprawl adds through metagame can be handled IC.

I have some reservations against this kind of statement. In my experience, it's true only in theory, but in practice not so much.

See, I think rules influence the direction a game goes. When you have rules for combat that expand dozens of pages constiuting the biggest chapter, like in Shadowrun, you're saying "combat is very important to this game". And when Sprawl shifts that over, with just half a dozen lines for combat, instead presenting whole chapters for tracking corporate heat and legwork noise and mission alertness clocks and fallout from jobs etc, you're saying "this game is not about combat, it's about managing survival under omnipresent corporation presence". Of course, this won't be transparent if you just use those rules as randomizing resolution for whatever ideas the GM have in his head. But if you them as intended by their authors to approach the experience they had in mind when created them, then yes, I think this will be evident.

(note that I never played Sprawl, so I don't know if it actually achieves what it aims for)

Shadowrun, all editions, was always hamstrung trying to present "real world" combat and gun-porn in a world that is inherently non-sensical.  So you ended up with these massively convoluted rule-sets (chunky salsa!) that really hampered play.  Hence the desire for games that focus more on the actual genre and less on the gaming math of the John Wick movies.

Thanks for the brief description Voros.

Nicely put KingCheops. Yeah, "Genre over pointless math" is the key here.

How is Shadowrun Anarchy, btw? Does it scratch that itch too?

Quote from: Itachi;1001856How is Shadowrun Anarchy, btw? Does it scratch that itch too?

If that's at me I stopped with Catalyst at Unwired (for being absolute shit) and the management controversy.

Quote from: Itachi;1001856Nicely put KingCheops. Yeah, "Genre over pointless math" is the key here.

How is Shadowrun Anarchy, btw? Does it scratch that itch too?

Nope, it ends up just as complicated as the original engine powering SR5. And SR5 is NOT complicated in the slightest (it's just people have an aversion to mental math, even hardcore nerds -- which itself should really be an oxymoron)) . One of the funniest bits is in trying to make the math more friendly, they make a shift into putting way more emphasis on the Gear you use than your base stats and, as a result, make things even more granular.

Quote from: KingCheops;1001927If that's at me I stopped with Catalyst at Unwired (for being absolute shit) and the management controversy.

Say what the controversy actually was. The shit is juicy as fuck.

And why was Unwired crap? Need some preliminary reading on this.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1002489Say what the controversy actually was. The shit is juicy as fuck.

And why was Unwired crap? Need some preliminary reading on this.

Please do!

Quote from: Itachi;1001634I have some reservations against this kind of statement. In my experience, it's true only in theory, but in practice not so much.

As practiced by you, and your experience is far from universal.  Sorry you had lousy GMs.

Quote from: Itachi;1001634See, I think rules influence the direction a game goes.

Heh, of course you do, based on your game choice, that's obviously apparent.  The thing that people always fail to comprehend about Shadowrun is that it was a game line, put out by a major RPG publisher, not one book put out by an indie guy.  If you wanted in-depth rules for internet searches and legwork footprints, you got them.  If you wanted in-depth rules on the Music Biz, the Simsense Industry, Law Enforcement, Security Technical Measures and Countermeasures, Magic of all types including Enchanting, and yeah eventually even Piracy, you got them.

But see none of that really was necessary when you're not someone who thinks it's the designer's job to tell you what your game is about.  The original game didn't have rules for how successful and failed Shadowruns could actually affect a Corporation's rating with it's rivals either (although some of the modules did), but it's a hallmark of the genre, so any GM who was actually running a living setting factored that in...and then later actually had rules for that too.

Quote from: Thanos;1002520Please do!

In one word: Embezzlement.

To the tune of? Almost a million bucks!

Whodunnit? One of the managing partners of the company before he ejected his ass out of the place (but, of course, got caught in the end).

Who got fucked over? Who DIDN'T...

Now that I've whet your appetite: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=30231

Quote from: CRKrueger;1002706As practiced by you, and your experience is far from universal.  Sorry you had lousy GMs.

Heh, of course you do, based on your game choice, that's obviously apparent.  The thing that people always fail to comprehend about Shadowrun is that it was a game line, put out by a major RPG publisher, not one book put out by an indie guy.  If you wanted in-depth rules for internet searches and legwork footprints, you got them.  If you wanted in-depth rules on the Music Biz, the Simsense Industry, Law Enforcement, Security Technical Measures and Countermeasures, Magic of all types including Enchanting, and yeah eventually even Piracy, you got them.

But see none of that really was necessary when you're not someone who thinks it's the designer's job to tell you what your game is about.  The original game didn't have rules for how successful and failed Shadowruns could actually affect a Corporation's rating with it's rivals either (although some of the modules did), but it's a hallmark of the genre, so any GM who was actually running a living setting factored that in...and then later actually had rules for that too.

Krug, half of the OSR'ers on this forum are crap at the very style of play they espouse. Much less GM em'. If this guy's GMs are crap at his theorycrafted style , leave 'im alone. There aren't enough of us fantastic GMs go around -- we're a rarity, you know.

And their already shitty output got even shittier as the last batch of half decent fan authors walked/were expelled from the company in witch hunts.  The next batch of fan authors were terrible and exacerbated the problem of having a shitty line developer/editor.

It was mostly fatigue from the 4th edition rules being crap.  Unwired exacerbated everything.  4th edition was supposed to have streamlined the matrix.  It quickly became apparent that it was impossible to create a difficult challenge for a dedicated hacker so the big solution in the book was to go back to having everything wired and create matrix dungeons just like the "bad" old days.  They added a lot of pointless complexity to create hurdles for the hacker which were nothing but more book keeping.

Quote from: KingCheopsIt was mostly fatigue from the 4th edition rules being crap

Did Shadowrun ever had a non-crap ruleset? Honest question.

I'm glad things like Anarchy and Sprawl (and Blades in the Dark) are happening. Sooner or later one of these will hit the right spot (if it didn't already hapenned) and I will rejoyce the possibilty to play in SR setting without ever touching one of it's official rulesets again.

Quote from: Itachi;1002931Did Shadowrun ever had a non-crap ruleset? Honest question.

I'm glad things like Anarchy and Sprawl (and Blades in the Dark) are happening. Sooner or later one of these will hit the right spot (if it didn't already hapenned) and I will rejoyce the possibilty to play in SR setting without ever touching one of it's official rulesets again.

I kinda liked 2e. These days I'd rather run The Sprawl.

Quote from: artikid;1002940I kinda liked 2e. These days I'd rather run The Sprawl.

personally I rather like 3e but it's also the only one I have any real knowledge of and have sadly never been able to run.Needless to say if I was to pick A game to run I'd probably run 3e.

Quote from: kosmos1214;1003012personally I rather like 3e but it's also the only one I have any real knowledge of and have sadly never been able to run.Needless to say if I was to pick A game to run I'd probably run 3e.

Ditto for me.  But also ditto that if I was going to run it ever again it'd be with a different system -- so many can do it so much better depending on what you want to highlight.