All it needs to do is clean up the labryinth of 5E rules and I'll give it a whirl

Quote from: Theory of Games;1085565Wow. Already? Did the rules-light versions (Anarchy, The Veil, and other games I can't remember) have an impact?

Apparently SR Anarchy will remain supported. The system recently came out with a sourcebook: Chicago Chaos.

While I own every edition of SR, Anarchy is my go-to version. It's just so much faster than regular SR, and it feels the same, though not as crunchy.

I'm pretty sure I'll never play or run Shadowrun ever again. My experiences with it have been terrible. I mean, hilarious, but still terrible.

Quote from: kythri;1085522So, 7E out in time for Christmas?

It does feel like 5E just came out recently. But it's been awhile. Players are still finding new copies of it in game stores, so it still feels new.

I wonder if 6E will simplify the car chase rules?

Quote from: Kael;1085576I remember playing 2E Shadowrun BITD. Great setting. Horrible rules.

Yeah - it had other issues too, but the worst IMO has always been how there are sub-systems which are for solo play.

You can have pieces of a system which are 1-2 PCs shtick, BUT they should either -

1. Be streamlined to get back to the main game ASAP

OR

2. Have ways for the other PCs to contribute albeit in a sub-par way.

Combat in Shadowrun does #2 pretty well. Street samurai and other combat builds dominate in a fun way, while the decker can still contribute. Sure - the decker is sub-par in combat, but that's okay because they and the other PCs know that's not their schtick, and they'll pull their weight later.

The problem is when it's time for the decker to use the matrix (I forget what the mage equivilent is - but same issue) and the other PCs sit around twiddling their thumbs for half an hour or more. They need to let the other PCs do SOMETHING. Off the top of my head - have the other PCs run viral programs or some such - with some fluff that they're better if a mind is running them rather than being automated.

I'm not sure why everyone's saying that 5th was worse than 4th when 5E was basically 4E with improvements.
You went back to the tiered system for character generation (I normally prefer point buy, but not the way 4E did it)
There were actual rules for how GMs were supposed to pay characters for a run.
Magic was somewhat cleaned up, even if decking wasn't.
The main thing I couldn't stand were Limits, and even these can be temporarily overcome with Edge, which indicates that the 4/5 Ed paradigm is intending characters to use Edge as much as possible, and definitely in critical moments.  Assuming you know when they are.

JG

My beef with 5th Edition was that it was impossible to find actual rules when you needed them. I spent a couple of days combing through character creation before I had a fully completed character, it wore me out from day one. When you could find a rule you needed, it would say see page XX and when you went to page XX it would say see Page X... The rules were scattered all throughout the book and it just became unplayable.

Quote from: Winterblight;1086232My beef with 5th Edition was that it was impossible to find actual rules when you needed them. I spent a couple of days combing through character creation before I had a fully completed character, it wore me out from day one. When you could find a rule you needed, it would say see page XX and when you went to page XX it would say see Page X... The rules were scattered all throughout the book and it just became unplayable.

Beyond that, the sample archetypes had so much stuff crammed into them that the print got way too small on a few of them just make it all fit the page. If those are supposed to be used by beginning players, a wall of text character write-up is a great way to scare them off (assuming their eyes can even focus on the tiny text).

I will definitely be taking an interest in this. I love me some shadowrun. My wish list would be medium crunch (instead of the present heavy), with decking/hacking reduced to a quick skill challenge-ish mechanic. Dice pools are a must.

Quote from: Psikerlord;1086386with decking/hacking reduced to a quick skill challenge-ish mechanic.

The issue has always been that there are (supposedly--I've never seen any in my groups in the 10+ years we played) that like decking/hacking and that there are entire archetypes devoted to it. This is similar to the magicians that enjoy their astral adventuring, but the big difference is that most magicians can still contribute to meat-space combat and challenges far more than deckers/hackers can. They might be going in the right direction by having rigging (drone & vehicle control) be an aspect of deckers/hackers rather than its own thing, but that didn't get a lot of love. In any event, Shadowrun suffers in playability by having so many different 'worlds' the characters have to operate in because every SR adventure almost requires splitting the party to accomplish missions. It makes sense in-world, but it has always been a pain in the ass to play or (especially) to run.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1086390The issue has always been that there are (supposedly--I've never seen any in my groups in the 10+ years we played) that like decking/hacking and that there are entire archetypes devoted to it. This is similar to the magicians that enjoy their astral adventuring, but the big difference is that most magicians can still contribute to meat-space combat and challenges far more than deckers/hackers can. They might be going in the right direction by having rigging (drone & vehicle control) be an aspect of deckers/hackers rather than its own thing, but that didn't get a lot of love. In any event, Shadowrun suffers in playability by having so many different 'worlds' the characters have to operate in because every SR adventure almost requires splitting the party to accomplish missions. It makes sense in-world, but it has always been a pain in the ass to play or (especially) to run.

Indeed. Too much twiddling of thumbs by the players not involved in decking and/or astral plane stuff.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1086394Indeed. Too much twiddling of thumbs by the players not involved in decking and/or astral plane stuff.

Or sometimes even the physical intrusion. I've seen groups where 2-3 characters are made for that and the rest stay home being "the guys/gals in a chair/van" so they don't catch bullets. Again, it makes in-world sense, but it's a pain in the ass to play & run.

Quote from: James Gillen;1086161I'm not sure why everyone's saying that 5th was worse than 4th when 5E was basically 4E with improvements.
You went back to the tiered system for character generation (I normally prefer point buy, but not the way 4E did it)
There were actual rules for how GMs were supposed to pay characters for a run.
Magic was somewhat cleaned up, even if decking wasn't.
The main thing I couldn't stand were Limits, and even these can be temporarily overcome with Edge, which indicates that the 4/5 Ed paradigm is intending characters to use Edge as much as possible, and definitely in critical moments.  Assuming you know when they are.

JG

The recoil rules made combat more of a pain in the ass, hacking got wirse with the mark system and having to track all that more complicated (which funnily enough was the opposite of intentions) and you had to buy two splats to get everything in one last edition.

So no, 5th was not an improvement.

And that's without getting into political issues like turning the Ork Underground into BLM.

Edit : They also fucked up every single piece of gear with the godawful wifi system that made zero fucking sense, was clearly shoehorned in at the last moment and still hasn't been fixed.

Just an interesting tidbit, R. Talsorian is publishing Cyberpunk RED this year, too. A fine year for these genres.

Quote from: soundchaser;1086457Just an interesting tidbit, R. Talsorian is publishing Cyberpunk RED this year, too. A fine year for these genres.

My bud is a big time Cyberpunk fan. I'll have to keep an eye out.