Old School Essentials used to be mentioned around this forum quite a lot. It almost seemed to be the front runner for Best OSR Game.
Now, it seems like Shadowdark is getting a lot of the praise.
I know that I prefer Shadowdark over OSE.
Am I alone in this?
I am playing in an OSE game now. I prefer it to Shadowdark (even though I supported Shadowdark's kickstarter at a high pledge level).
I don't really have that much critical to say about Shadowdark. I find the criticisms that have been aired about it in this forum unpersuasive.
But I'll probably never play Shadowdark. OSE, Swords & Wizardry, Black Hack all scratch that itch better for me.
That might be a reflection of when and where I started. I began playing AD&D in the 1980s.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2025, 07:38:22 PMOld School Essentials used to be mentioned around this forum quite a lot. It almost seemed to be the front runner for Best OSR Game.
Now, it seems like Shadowdark is getting a lot of the praise.
I know that I prefer Shadowdark over OSE.
Am I alone in this?
I prefer the way ShadowDark does Classes and casting.
Outside of that; OSE is the more complete game.
SD could have very easily been an OSE hack.
Have both, will be running OSE in an hour and a half because it just seems easier for the group to get and so much material runs with it seamlessly, including its own supplements, like Carcass Crawler.
OSE is literally just B/X which is 40+ years old. It's the superior game, however.
Give me OSE (or Moldvay/Cook) with Shadowdark casting and that is my ideal system to run a D&D style game in.
Both are good games. I started with D&D B/X years ago, so I like OSE. But I prefer Shadowdark's casting. And the Shadowdark Thief is better than the B/X Thief, IMO.
I also play Shadowdark, but I dislike its XP system. The B/X system where 1 GP = 1 XP is much easier to understand.
Anyway, one of the reasons why OSE has seemingly dropped a bit in popularity may be because the OSE team has been focused on getting the Dolmenwood Kickstarter finished. OSE seems to have taken a back seat to that. But Necrotic Gnome does have new OSE stuff coming out in 2025. They made a blog post about it here:
https://necroticgnome.com/blogs/news/looking-ahead-to-2025
Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:25:10 PMOSE is literally just B/X which is 40+ years old. It's the superior game, however.
I agree, except that OSE is a lot more sterile in its presentation. Older TSR games were written with style and were fun to read. OSR has all of the rules, is well organized, and just reads like a stale product. OSE is probably better, but Shadowdark is more fun to read.
I would say that both games are B/X based.
Shadowdark has three features that I prefer.
1. Non-Vancian magic. It's roll-to-cast instead of spell slots.
2. Weapon and armor traits. However, there still isn't a reason to want a short sword over a longsword, so this could have been better.
3. Random Advancement tables when you level up. Two warriors shouldn't be the same.
I'll add one more bit. I still prefer indie games over D&D and the D&D clones. If asked, I'll prefer Pocket Fantasy, Dungeons & Delvers dice pool, or True-D6 over any OSR game.
But, if the rules has to be a choice between OSE and Shadowdark, it's Shadowdark.
If I were to run an OSR game it would either be Knave 2e, Dungeon Crawl Classics, or my own version of OSE changed in ways that make it similar to the direction Shadowdark went (like 5e advantage/disadvantage.)
I prefer OSE with a few house rules. The keeping track of torches thing is boring for me. Not a fan of heavy inventory style games and OSE is easy to teach, run and play.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2025, 07:38:22 PMOld School Essentials used to be mentioned around this forum quite a lot. It almost seemed to be the front runner for Best OSR Game.
Now, it seems like Shadowdark is getting a lot of the praise.
I know that I prefer Shadowdark over OSE.
Am I alone in this?
I play and run Old School Essentials and I love it. I talk about it whenever I can and suggest it to everyone I can. It's so easy to run and play and feels like the old school D&D I played in my younger years.
Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:25:10 PMOSE is literally just B/X which is 40+ years old. It's the superior game, however.
This is true, but the desinger also cleaned it up, clarified the rules and fixed the mistakes. I looked at a ton of different OSR games and OSE is the only one that really does what I want it to do.
Quote from: finarvyn on February 03, 2025, 08:52:24 AMI agree, except that OSE is a lot more sterile in its presentation. Older TSR games were written with style and were fun to read. OSR has all of the rules, is well organized, and just reads like a stale product. OSE is probably better, but Shadowdark is more fun to read.
Well that is my biggest gripe with OSE, honestly. It lacks any sort of flavor at all. B/X Essentials was originally just a rules reference for B/X that morphed into its own product (OSE), and I'm thinking he should have just left well enough alone and stayed with the reference model. Instead, OSE is padded out with tons and tons of artwork that does not really help evoke the flavor inherent in the original B/X text.
So it's a good reference for B/X with way too much art. I backed all the Kickstarters and got my t-shirt, but I still find myself thumbing through Moldvay Basic every so often, OSE sits on the shelf.
I was always under the impression that Shadowdark is for gamers who play 5e, but want a more Old School feel. It's 5e stripped down.
OSE, which I own but haven't played (yet), is the best of B/X and 1st ed AD&D. You can play race as class, races with separate classes, or combine the two. I'm not a big fan of the spell list. It limited IMO. I'd prefer my spell list to go out to 9th level. I also prefer different weapon damage based upon size of the creature. OSE just has one damage for all. The spell list and weapon damage is more of a personal preference, since I was more into 1st ed AD&D than B/X.
Which OSR product/system is the one that stripped down 3.x to a B/X level of complexity?
Quote from: RNGm on February 03, 2025, 03:48:57 PMWhich OSR product/system is the one that stripped down 3.x to a B/X level of complexity?
Blood & Treasure
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/189591/blood-treasure-2nd-edition-rulebook
Quote from: estar on February 03, 2025, 04:23:30 PMQuote from: RNGm on February 03, 2025, 03:48:57 PMWhich OSR product/system is the one that stripped down 3.x to a B/X level of complexity?
Blood & Treasure
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/189591/blood-treasure-2nd-edition-rulebook
Thanks. I went back and tried to find where I got the idea from this weekend in the first place and luckily found it on the first page of the search results. Would Castles and Crusades fit that bill as this site claims? I genuinely have no idea as I have zero experience with the ruleset including not even skimming the actual rules myself and haven't followed this blog either so don't know how reliable/accurate their takes are on the subject matter.
https://unsoundmethodsblog.wordpress.com/2023/03/12/twenty-osr-systems-reviewed/
"C&C, published in 2004, is not a retroclone, but an OSR OGL game. It is 3E D&D, but stripped back to remove feats, skill points, prestige classes, etc to create a version of AD&D, but using the unified d20 die mechanic. I'm looking at the 7th printing pdf. "
Quote from: RNGm on February 03, 2025, 04:36:54 PMWould Castles and Crusades fit that bill as this site claims?
As much as there are things I dislike or would change about C&C rules-wise, in play it's AD&D. One of those situations where pontificating about rules and how things are handled has no real bearing on what happens when you play the game.
The PDF of the PHB is free, too.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/105322/free-castles-crusades-players-handbook-7th-printing
Quote from: Brad on February 03, 2025, 05:02:47 PMQuote from: RNGm on February 03, 2025, 04:36:54 PMWould Castles and Crusades fit that bill as this site claims?
As much as there are things I dislike or would change about C&C rules-wise, in play it's AD&D. One of those situations where pontificating about rules and how things are handled has no real bearing on what happens when you play the game.
The PDF of the PHB is free, too.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/105322/free-castles-crusades-players-handbook-7th-printing
Thanks! I'll take a look.
Quote from: Brad on February 03, 2025, 05:02:47 PMQuote from: RNGm on February 03, 2025, 04:36:54 PMWould Castles and Crusades fit that bill as this site claims?
As much as there are things I dislike or would change about C&C rules-wise, in play it's AD&D. One of those situations where pontificating about rules and how things are handled has no real bearing on what happens when you play the game.
The PDF of the PHB is free, too.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/105322/free-castles-crusades-players-handbook-7th-printing
I just got this a couple days ago and have been looking at it. It's been a very long time since I played AD&D, but it looks similar, but some of the concepts really don't ring a bell for me. My main group plays online and the VTT support looks limited (though it does exist), so I'm not sure we'll every actually try it.
OSE has better free content and better compatibility.
OSE is B/X, not BX plus AD&D. OSEA is that... kinda. Mostly B/X, some AD&D-inspired bits.
Now, SD has some interesting rules. But I don't find them interesting enough when compared to various other neoclones.
Anyway, there are lots of games to choose from. Hyperborea is cool, Argosa is great, B&T 2e looks awesome, TBH has that minimalist charm, FH&W that gonzo awesomeness, BFRPG endless free adventures and supplements, LotFP some actual improvements over B/X spells, etc.
Which is the best one? My own, of course. ;)
With lots of house rules. ;P
Quote from: Acres Wild on February 03, 2025, 01:16:00 PMI prefer OSE with a few house rules. The keeping track of torches thing is boring for me. Not a fan of heavy inventory style games and OSE is easy to teach, run and play.
I agree. The torch timer thing is silly. I wouldn't use that part of the rules. Or, should I say I consider that optional.
Quote from: estar on February 03, 2025, 04:23:30 PMQuote from: RNGm on February 03, 2025, 03:48:57 PMWhich OSR product/system is the one that stripped down 3.x to a B/X level of complexity?
Blood & Treasure
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/189591/blood-treasure-2nd-edition-rulebook
The what now? Interesting. I've never heard of that one. Thanks!