Quote from: bendis on June 12, 2023, 06:54:29 AM
Outclassed by​ Darkbad which is free and took only a day to make!

LOL!

Mr Welch just did a video on Shadowdark. He reviewed it fairly. And like me and many others was left scratching his head as to why so many praised it when it is at best average. Give the video a watch. I quite enjoyed his critique of the rules.

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 17, 2023, 10:12:46 AM

Mr Welch just did a video on Shadowdark. He reviewed it fairly. And like me and many others was left scratching his head as to why so many praised it when it is at best average. Give the video a watch. I quite enjoyed his critique of the rules.

Because a terrifying percentage of humans are easily manipulated.

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 17, 2023, 10:12:46 AM

Mr Welch just did a video on Shadowdark. He reviewed it fairly. And like me and many others was left scratching his head as to why so many praised it when it is at best average. Give the video a watch. I quite enjoyed his critique of the rules.

I usually like Mr Welch's videos, but this review is a big fail.  He's reviewing some old beta version of the game.  The actual finished game is quite different from what he's reviewing.

He criticizes the game for not having a table of contents.  The game does have a table of contents.
He criticizes the game for not having spears.  The game does have spears.
He criticizes the game for longswords doing d6 damage.  Longswords in this game do d8 damage.
He criticizes the game for not having Kobolds, Gnolls, or Golems in the monster section.  The game does have Kobolds, Gnolls, and Golems in the monster section.

So if for some odd reason you're planning on playing an old, outdated beta version of Shadowdark, this review might be helpful.  But if you're going to play the actual finished game that gets released, many of the criticisms in this video simply don't apply.

So; whatever.  Isn't still just someone's house rules?  Never found it remotely interesting and still don't.  Nothing one can't already do with any number of retroclones or the original game.  But if turning off the lights after an hour and calling it "realistic" is your jam, have at it.

And those who criticize Mr. Welch for critiquing the Beta rules clearly didn't listen to the video.  Several times he offers caveats that the version he has may be different from the final version.  This has no effect on the utter boring mediocrity of this derivative game, however.

Quote from: Crusader X on August 17, 2023, 06:26:48 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 17, 2023, 10:12:46 AM

Mr Welch just did a video on Shadowdark. He reviewed it fairly. And like me and many others was left scratching his head as to why so many praised it when it is at best average. Give the video a watch. I quite enjoyed his critique of the rules.

I usually like Mr Welch's videos, but this review is a big fail.  He's reviewing some old beta version of the game.  The actual finished game is quite different from what he's reviewing.

He criticizes the game for not having a table of contents.  The game does have a table of contents.
He criticizes the game for not having spears.  The game does have spears.
He criticizes the game for longswords doing d6 damage.  Longswords in this game do d8 damage.
He criticizes the game for not having Kobolds, Gnolls, or Golems in the monster section.  The game does have Kobolds, Gnolls, and Golems in the monster section.

So if for some odd reason you're planning on playing an old, outdated beta version of Shadowdark, this review might be helpful.  But if you're going to play the actual finished game that gets released, many of the criticisms in this video simply don't apply.

I was asked if I would like to review the game.  I agreed, I was sent the version I reviewed.  I can only talk about what I was provided.  I used the same book that several other reviewers also had on their channel.  I did like the game, but I felt it was too safe in the rules.  If you are teaching people how to play an RPG for the first time, it's great.  It's not complicated, uses tried and true methods that are found in other systems, and doesn't have too many rules.  In that niche, it serves its purpose well.  It doesn't offer much long-term, similar to the Dragon Age RPG, but this cuts the game short at 10 levels rather than dragging it out to 20.  It borrowed heavily from DCC in that regard, without all the specialty dice.  The author put on a masterclass in marketing and had the good fortune of promoting a game while WOTC was in the middle of a nuclear meltdown.  It might not stand far apart from other OSR titles, but it might very well be the luckiest in terms of release schedule.  Don't interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake.

My biggest critique was the sameness of the game compared to other similar titles.  It makes for a competent game, just not a memorable one.  Though I stand by everything I said about banded mail.

Quote from: TheGlen on August 17, 2023, 10:00:52 PM

Quote from: Crusader X on August 17, 2023, 06:26:48 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 17, 2023, 10:12:46 AM

Mr Welch just did a video on Shadowdark. He reviewed it fairly. And like me and many others was left scratching his head as to why so many praised it when it is at best average. Give the video a watch. I quite enjoyed his critique of the rules.

I usually like Mr Welch's videos, but this review is a big fail.  He's reviewing some old beta version of the game.  The actual finished game is quite different from what he's reviewing.

He criticizes the game for not having a table of contents.  The game does have a table of contents.
He criticizes the game for not having spears.  The game does have spears.
He criticizes the game for longswords doing d6 damage.  Longswords in this game do d8 damage.
He criticizes the game for not having Kobolds, Gnolls, or Golems in the monster section.  The game does have Kobolds, Gnolls, and Golems in the monster section.

So if for some odd reason you're planning on playing an old, outdated beta version of Shadowdark, this review might be helpful.  But if you're going to play the actual finished game that gets released, many of the criticisms in this video simply don't apply.

I was asked if I would like to review the game.  I agreed, I was sent the version I reviewed.  I can only talk about what I was provided.  I used the same book that several other reviewers also had on their channel.  I did like the game, but I felt it was too safe in the rules.  If you are teaching people how to play an RPG for the first time, it's great.  It's not complicated, uses tried and true methods that are found in other systems, and doesn't have too many rules.  In that niche, it serves its purpose well.  It doesn't offer much long-term, similar to the Dragon Age RPG, but this cuts the game short at 10 levels rather than dragging it out to 20.  It borrowed heavily from DCC in that regard, without all the specialty dice.  The author put on a masterclass in marketing and had the good fortune of promoting a game while WOTC was in the middle of a nuclear meltdown.  It might not stand far apart from other OSR titles, but it might very well be the luckiest in terms of release schedule.  Don't interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake.

My biggest critique was the sameness of the game compared to other similar titles.  It makes for a competent game, just not a memorable one.  Though I stand by everything I said about banded mail.

Hey TheGlen, could I send you the beta rules of ACKS Imperial Imprint for you to do a review?

Yes I will review just about anything.  Fair warning I'm seven back on thr musings right now.  Trying to speed i'r up but real life keeps interfering.  Contact me through my email on the the yt channel

Quote from: TheGlen on August 17, 2023, 10:59:05 PM
Yes I will review just about anything.  Fair warning I'm seven back on thr musings right now.  Trying to speed i'r up but real life keeps interfering.  Contact me through my email on the the yt channel

While you're here, thanks for driving up interest i Mystara its my favorite official setting as well, and helped me get some of my players to play BECMI with me when i decided to stop running 5e.

Quote from: TheGlen on August 17, 2023, 10:00:52 PM
I was asked if I would like to review the game.  I agreed, I was sent the version I reviewed.  I can only talk about what I was provided.  I used the same book that several other reviewers also had on their channel. 

That's odd.  Just curious, but who provided you with the version of the game that you reviewed?  It doesn't seem to be the same version that other reviewers used.  Ben Milton's Questing Beast channel reviewed Shadowdark five months ago.  He did a flip-through of the rules back then, and you can see the game contains a table of contents in his review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqO68ZjkNgA

I also just checked out several other Shadowdark reviews on YouTube, and spears in the equipment list can be seen in multiple review flip-throughs.

I've also seen several channels review the free Shadowdark quickstart rules.  Those rules also have a table of contents, they have spears in the equipment list, etc.  The free quickstart rules are probably the most popular version of the game, other than the actual final product, due to them being a free, fully playable game.  And Kelsey often encourages people to download those free rules to show people the game.

I don't know.  I just find it odd that an old, outdated beta version of a game would be reviewed today, when newer versions are easily available.   I can see a beta review being somewhat useful if the product is a long way from being finished, and the beta is the only current option.   But the Shadowdark game is way past beta.  Its finished.  The free quickstart rules have been finished for quite awhile, and are in the wild and are being played by many.  And they're free!  And they seem to be a better representation of the rules than an old outdated beta version.   I don't think many people in August of 2023 are looking at the old, outdated, incomplete, beta version of the rules that you reviewed.

It wasn't provided recently, I'm just that backed up.  Musings take a while to write while I play the game and kick the tires.  Meanwhile people keep sending me games to review.  I moved this one up because of demand.  I've pushed back Powers and Perils and Mutant Chronicles back several times to give precedence to donated titles.  I've heard Questing Beast's video was a paid promotion and not a review.

Quote from: TheGlen on August 18, 2023, 07:59:55 AM
It wasn't provided recently, I'm just that backed up.  Musings take a while to write while I play the game and kick the tires.  Meanwhile people keep sending me games to review.  I moved this one up because of demand.  I've pushed back Powers and Perils and Mutant Chronicles back several times to give precedence to donated titles.  I've heard Questing Beast's video was a paid promotion and not a review.

I think most of QB's reviews are paid promotions.  He should change his channel name to Questing Shill or maybe Questing for Shillings.

Quote from: TheGlen on August 18, 2023, 07:59:55 AM
It wasn't provided recently, I'm just that backed up.  Musings take a while to write while I play the game and kick the tires.  Meanwhile people keep sending me games to review.  I moved this one up because of demand.  I've pushed back Powers and Perils and Mutant Chronicles back several times to give precedence to donated titles.  I've heard Questing Beast's video was a paid promotion and not a review.

Ask Kelsey Dione, the author of Shadowdark,  for a copy of the full Rules for the purposes of review and she will provide you one so yo ucan see how the product has evolved from the quickstart to the full release.  You'll notice a significant amount of change.

I will try and contact her.  Let me try and clear this backlog a bit first.

Quote from: Persimmon on August 18, 2023, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: TheGlen on August 18, 2023, 07:59:55 AM
It wasn't provided recently, I'm just that backed up.  Musings take a while to write while I play the game and kick the tires.  Meanwhile people keep sending me games to review.  I moved this one up because of demand.  I've pushed back Powers and Perils and Mutant Chronicles back several times to give precedence to donated titles.  I've heard Questing Beast's video was a paid promotion and not a review.

I think most of QB's reviews are paid promotions.  He should change his channel name to Questing Shill or maybe Questing for Shillings.

He's been on this board before and said that most of his videos arent paid reviews.