Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 10:50:46 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 01:36:43 PM

Quote from: blackstone on March 30, 2023, 03:22:50 PM
I can't help to think when it comes to critics of Shadowdark, that there might be a tinge of jealousy involved.

A bit of "God dammit! Why didn't I think of that!" sort of thing.

I perused the quick start rules. Sure, not everything there is original.

The presentation is good, clear, concise.

Artwork is definitely within the OSR style.

she used her connections within the industry, which btw there is NOTHING wrong in doing so, to spread the word. Anyone who has any business sense would do the same thing.

She got great traction from many online reviewers (YouTube for example) and IIRC recognition from Forbes magazine doesn't hurt.

Now the Kickstarter is done and she raised more than $1 million.

So, I ask you again, all of the critics and detractors: could you by some small chance be a LITTLE jealous?

What would I have to be jealous about? Again, raising ONE MILLION sure seems like a lot, but that's gross not net, and depending on what she promised and how careful she was, after you deduct all the various costs, she MIGHT end up earning more in that kickstarter than I'll earn this year. Since she seems to be pretty well-advised, she probably will. A lot of less organized people making those numbers will not (the Coyote & Crow guy, for example, who made ONE MILLION and is now bankrupt).

But I'll be making my money, and more, over and over again every year. No fancy Kickstarters needed, just making good product for real gamers.

According to interviews, Kelsey claims that SD took 3 years to create. So remove KS's cut, all the other people she has to pay, the printing and delivery costs, and then divide what's left by three: that's what she earned "per year" for this. She would have to be very organized and meticulous for that per-year earning number to reach six figures.



P.S. Once again, this past month broke the record as my biggest earning month of all time. Something that's happening every two or three months lately.

RPGPundit, I think that's great for your situation. Believe me, if you can make a living at RPG design, that's awesome.

What I'm saying is some of the negative comments by the detractors are not much more than strawman arguments. They're not critiquing the rules themselves. They arguments are based upon "this is nothing new" or "it's just repackaged blah-blah-blah". Again, if anyone has any negative comments based upon the rules playability, then I willing to listen. Otherwise, those detractors do sound a bit on the jealous side.

I have no dog in this "fight". I'm just saying my point of view.

I've repeatedly stated that I think that the rules seem to be good.  I mean, how could I argue otherwise given that almost all of the rules that are "innovative" about Shadowdark are in Lion & Dragon?

Quote from: Festus on April 04, 2023, 12:24:51 AM

Quote from: SHARK on April 03, 2023, 10:27:03 PM
Greetings!

Interesting video. Mr. Tarrasque provides further analysis of Shadowdark, and also chews on the haters. So hilarious!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It was an interesting vid, but I think he misses an important facet of the Shadowdark rest mechanic. It requires you to consume a ration to get the benefits of the rest. Rations, like torches and treasure, take up precious gear slots. So resting becomes subject to the same resource management as seeing in the dark and earning XP.  That's huge.

Greetings!

Yeah, Mr. Tarrasque did mention the need for eating a Ration to gain the healing in the rest process--though he did so in kind of on the downturn of speaking, so it is easy to miss, as his voice trails off and is kind of quiet. Your point though being more explicit--yeah, linking it mechanically to resource management certainly does make it more meaningful. I can't imagine characters carrying a whole lot of food, with everything else, so them having lots of full heal rests is likely to be very limited.

That is actually pretty strong mechanically, and strategically, when you think about it.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2023, 04:03:30 AM

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 10:50:46 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 01:36:43 PM

Quote from: blackstone on March 30, 2023, 03:22:50 PM
I can't help to think when it comes to critics of Shadowdark, that there might be a tinge of jealousy involved.

A bit of "God dammit! Why didn't I think of that!" sort of thing.

I perused the quick start rules. Sure, not everything there is original.

The presentation is good, clear, concise.

Artwork is definitely within the OSR style.

she used her connections within the industry, which btw there is NOTHING wrong in doing so, to spread the word. Anyone who has any business sense would do the same thing.

She got great traction from many online reviewers (YouTube for example) and IIRC recognition from Forbes magazine doesn't hurt.

Now the Kickstarter is done and she raised more than $1 million.

So, I ask you again, all of the critics and detractors: could you by some small chance be a LITTLE jealous?

What would I have to be jealous about? Again, raising ONE MILLION sure seems like a lot, but that's gross not net, and depending on what she promised and how careful she was, after you deduct all the various costs, she MIGHT end up earning more in that kickstarter than I'll earn this year. Since she seems to be pretty well-advised, she probably will. A lot of less organized people making those numbers will not (the Coyote & Crow guy, for example, who made ONE MILLION and is now bankrupt).

But I'll be making my money, and more, over and over again every year. No fancy Kickstarters needed, just making good product for real gamers.

According to interviews, Kelsey claims that SD took 3 years to create. So remove KS's cut, all the other people she has to pay, the printing and delivery costs, and then divide what's left by three: that's what she earned "per year" for this. She would have to be very organized and meticulous for that per-year earning number to reach six figures.



P.S. Once again, this past month broke the record as my biggest earning month of all time. Something that's happening every two or three months lately.

RPGPundit, I think that's great for your situation. Believe me, if you can make a living at RPG design, that's awesome.

What I'm saying is some of the negative comments by the detractors are not much more than strawman arguments. They're not critiquing the rules themselves. They arguments are based upon "this is nothing new" or "it's just repackaged blah-blah-blah". Again, if anyone has any negative comments based upon the rules playability, then I willing to listen. Otherwise, those detractors do sound a bit on the jealous side.

I have no dog in this "fight". I'm just saying my point of view.

I've repeatedly stated that I think that the rules seem to be good.  I mean, how could I argue otherwise given that almost all of the rules that are "innovative" about Shadowdark are in Lion & Dragon?

Greetings!

That is a strange coincidence, Pundit! It is a mystery, in her videos and from others, she openly has talked about creative influences and mentors that have had considerable influence on her, as a gamer and as a game designer--she's talked about RUNEHAMMER, Professor DM, DCC, OD&D, amongst others...but never *once* has she or anyone else amongst the YouTubers/Reviewers--that have all reviewed Shadowdark--have even mentioned you or Lion & Dragon.

Various reviewers have discussed clear influences from OD&D, DCC, ICRPG, 5E, but no one has mentioned a word about Lion & Dragon, or you. Such a tragic oversight! Isn't it strange that no one else has seen how so much of Shadowdark's innovation and briliance has come from Lion & Dragon? How come someone didn't explain to her--or why didn't she realise that so much of Shadowark's greatness and inspiration can be found in Lion & Dragon? Why isn't Lion & Dragon her topmost source of inspiration? Why hasn't Kelsey talked about how RPG Pundit has been her greatest mentor and inspiration?

Interesting to think about!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I think a lot of the enthusiasm for the "innovative" mechanics that have already shown up in other OSR games are coming from people who are primarily in 5E sphere. The OSR is a niche within a niche after all. It isn't that surprising that some normies haven't heard of them before.

As a Brit I have to say that I enjoy sustained sarcasm  It does, however, make me want to take a look at Lion & Dragon.

Quote from: Tasty_Wind on April 05, 2023, 04:52:58 AM
I think a lot of the enthusiasm for the "innovative" mechanics that have already shown up in other OSR games are coming from people who are primarily in 5E sphere. The OSR is a niche within a niche after all. It isn't that surprising that some normies haven't heard of them before.

Good point.   I've run one SD session for my 5e group and, although, in general, they seemed to enjoy it I received some resistance on the more OSRy parts of the system.    "3d6 straight down the line?  But I might end up with a useless character!"   "Lose my spell on first failure??  But I might not be able to cast that spell at all this session!"

Quote from: Persimmon on April 04, 2023, 06:47:41 PM

Finally, as someone else noted, it does seem that if some rando cis white guy designed the game instead of a frumpy, middle-aged lesbian, there would be somewhat less exaggerated hype.  Maybe, I'm wrong there but I don't think so.

"Frumpy, middle-aged lesbian"?   Classy.

Quote from: S'mon on March 22, 2023, 04:39:40 PM
Forbes endorses Shadowdark
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robwieland/2023/03/16/shadowdark-looks-back-at-dungeon-crawls-with-an-eye-to-the-future/amp/

Hey if Chinese commies like it, I'm out.

Quote from: MadMattUK on April 05, 2023, 05:00:48 AM

Quote from: Tasty_Wind on April 05, 2023, 04:52:58 AM
I think a lot of the enthusiasm for the "innovative" mechanics that have already shown up in other OSR games are coming from people who are primarily in 5E sphere. The OSR is a niche within a niche after all. It isn't that surprising that some normies haven't heard of them before.

Good point.   I've run one SD session for my 5e group and, although, in general, they seemed to enjoy it I received some resistance on the more OSRy parts of the system.    "3d6 straight down the line?  But I might end up with a useless character!"   "Lose my spell on first failure??  But I might not be able to cast that spell at all this session!"

Welcome to the OSR where your first level PC is not a god, not a hero, they are barely one foot on the path to greatness and everything is out to kill them so resource management now become tied to survival.

as for the class roles: "no 14? Do a reroll of all" worked for me as well as the Inverted21 rule (take all scores minus 21, thats your new value).  You can always do 4d6 drop lowest Kelsey even states that wont break the game either.

Quote from: SHARK on April 05, 2023, 04:41:32 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2023, 04:03:30 AM

Quote from: blackstone on April 03, 2023, 10:50:46 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2023, 01:36:43 PM

Quote from: blackstone on March 30, 2023, 03:22:50 PM
I can't help to think when it comes to critics of Shadowdark, that there might be a tinge of jealousy involved.

A bit of "God dammit! Why didn't I think of that!" sort of thing.

I perused the quick start rules. Sure, not everything there is original.

The presentation is good, clear, concise.

Artwork is definitely within the OSR style.

she used her connections within the industry, which btw there is NOTHING wrong in doing so, to spread the word. Anyone who has any business sense would do the same thing.

She got great traction from many online reviewers (YouTube for example) and IIRC recognition from Forbes magazine doesn't hurt.

Now the Kickstarter is done and she raised more than $1 million.

So, I ask you again, all of the critics and detractors: could you by some small chance be a LITTLE jealous?

What would I have to be jealous about? Again, raising ONE MILLION sure seems like a lot, but that's gross not net, and depending on what she promised and how careful she was, after you deduct all the various costs, she MIGHT end up earning more in that kickstarter than I'll earn this year. Since she seems to be pretty well-advised, she probably will. A lot of less organized people making those numbers will not (the Coyote & Crow guy, for example, who made ONE MILLION and is now bankrupt).

But I'll be making my money, and more, over and over again every year. No fancy Kickstarters needed, just making good product for real gamers.

According to interviews, Kelsey claims that SD took 3 years to create. So remove KS's cut, all the other people she has to pay, the printing and delivery costs, and then divide what's left by three: that's what she earned "per year" for this. She would have to be very organized and meticulous for that per-year earning number to reach six figures.



P.S. Once again, this past month broke the record as my biggest earning month of all time. Something that's happening every two or three months lately.

RPGPundit, I think that's great for your situation. Believe me, if you can make a living at RPG design, that's awesome.

What I'm saying is some of the negative comments by the detractors are not much more than strawman arguments. They're not critiquing the rules themselves. They arguments are based upon "this is nothing new" or "it's just repackaged blah-blah-blah". Again, if anyone has any negative comments based upon the rules playability, then I willing to listen. Otherwise, those detractors do sound a bit on the jealous side.

I have no dog in this "fight". I'm just saying my point of view.

I've repeatedly stated that I think that the rules seem to be good.  I mean, how could I argue otherwise given that almost all of the rules that are "innovative" about Shadowdark are in Lion & Dragon?

Greetings!

That is a strange coincidence, Pundit! It is a mystery, in her videos and from others, she openly has talked about creative influences and mentors that have had considerable influence on her, as a gamer and as a game designer--she's talked about RUNEHAMMER, Professor DM, DCC, OD&D, amongst others...but never *once* has she or anyone else amongst the YouTubers/Reviewers--that have all reviewed Shadowdark--have even mentioned you or Lion & Dragon.

Various reviewers have discussed clear influences from OD&D, DCC, ICRPG, 5E, but no one has mentioned a word about Lion & Dragon, or you. Such a tragic oversight! Isn't it strange that no one else has seen how so much of Shadowdark's innovation and briliance has come from Lion & Dragon? How come someone didn't explain to her--or why didn't she realise that so much of Shadowark's greatness and inspiration can be found in Lion & Dragon? Why isn't Lion & Dragon her topmost source of inspiration? Why hasn't Kelsey talked about how RPG Pundit has been her greatest mentor and inspiration?

Interesting to think about!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The creator is a homosexual women, but hasn't used that fact to advertise her game or call people who don't support it bigots. I think she just doesn't want to play identity politics.
Sure many have pointed out there are similarities with pundit's work, but nobody is calling for her head.
BUT, imagine if she said she took inspiration for Lion and Dragon. The wokists would have her drawn and quartered in a millisecond.

Now that the Kickstarter is done, the backers must've gotten their .pdf files. 

So how is it looking backers? 

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on April 05, 2023, 09:47:59 AM
Now that the Kickstarter is done, the backers must've gotten their .pdf files. 

So how is it looking backers?

I'll copy and paste the Kickstarter update.  TLDR: Waiting for funds to clear from KS, then backerkit, and out goes all the PDFs. ETA: 2 weeks.

I was "wrong" about the Automatically at the end of KS being sent out. "After payments have cleared" SHOULD have been the correct answer. mea culpa

Quote
We Did It!
We funded, and we did it in jaw-dropping fashion!

$1.3 million dollars is a number I never thought I'd be writing. Jessee and I thank you all so much from the bottom of our hearts.

It's been the most awe-inducing experience of my career to see the incredible amount of support and excitement coming from the Shadowdark RPG community!

Jessee has been holding down the fort as I recover from a bit of exhaustion, lost voice, and Gary Con crud (nothing serious, thankfully). I'm back in full action today!

I've been so busy this past month that I didn't get a lot of time to sit down and think about what this community has accomplished. But the last day or two has given me a brief pause to really consider how big of a deal this Kickstarter is, and what it means.

In just 30 days, all 13,249 of us have done something few thought possible in this industry. We took an indie game that I thought would be lucky to fund at $10,000 and turned it into a movement that sees the beauty in both new and old game design.

It's a dream come true! It moves me emotionally just to write about it. To see such a show of respect and love for the history of our game, and optimism for the future of our hobby -- I think this is going to mark a consequential moment in the TTRPG history books.

Thank you, backers, for being the ones to make it happen!

What's Next?
I'm sure you've been receiving lots of Kickstarter-generated emails about funding, card charges, and any changes needed to forms of payment.

I didn't want to bombard, but I also am kick(starter)ing myself a bit for deciding to wait to send this update!

I know folks are curious about what's next, so without further delay, I want to share our next order of operations:

1. Kickstarter is processing payments. This should take about two weeks, and I'll be able to send out PDFs to backers as soon as this completes! I'm just as eager to get the PDFs to everyone as I'm sure you are to receive them, so this will feel longer than it is. But I hope you can forgive the wait as we let things process the way they're supposed to!

2. Backerkit will let you alter your pledge. We're currently setting up Backerkit (our pledge manager) to allow you as much flexibility as possible in changing your pledge, adding add-ons, and allowing digital-only backers to add physical rewards (this isn't possible via Kickstarter, but it is for Backerkit).

I'm working with the Backerkit Team to make sure we're being meticulous and setting all this up correctly. I'll send out updates about when we'll have it ready to go -- I expect it will be right around the time Kickstarter clears payments, so about two weeks!

3. We will get your shipping address closer to the shipping date. We'll use Backerkit to send out surveys about your shipping address and to process shipping costs closer to the date we're ready to fulfill. That makes pricing more accurate for everyone!

Stay Tuned
I'll keep the updates coming now that I'm recovered and back with our next steps! Don't hesitate to ask questions in the mean time.

Thanks for being patient with the glut of emails you've potentially received about this project in the past week. I hope it hasn't been too much.

The best part is yet to come! I am so excited to get Shadowdark into your hands and to your gaming table!

-Kelsey

As for the Zines that have been released very much enjoying the ninja class, poison mechanics, and some of the alternative casters.  The ability to create classes allowed us to whip up all the class/sub-class combo's our group is playing easily enough.  It is a modular system at it's core.

Quote from: MadMattUK on April 05, 2023, 05:03:52 AM
"Frumpy, middle-aged lesbian"?   Classy.

Aren't they literally the ambassadors of leftist ideology?

Quote from: Brad on April 05, 2023, 09:57:33 AM

Quote from: MadMattUK on April 05, 2023, 05:03:52 AM
"Frumpy, middle-aged lesbian"?   Classy.

Aren't they literally the ambassadors of leftist ideology?

You mis-spelled 'Shock Troopers.'

Quote from: MadMattUK on April 05, 2023, 04:56:00 AM
As a Brit I have to say that I enjoy sustained sarcasm  It does, however, make me want to take a look at Lion & Dragon.

Greetings!

Welcome, MadMattUK!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK