Quote from: Feratu on March 03, 2023, 11:14:09 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 03, 2023, 09:23:44 AM
^This.  Thirsty dudes are gonna thirst.

Kelsey writes good stuff, and I have purchased physical products from her Arcane Library. For any dudes thirsting, though... They may be disappointed. A few years back, she stated that she has a girlfriend.

YouTube video: https://youtu.be/xWLUJYlYymQ

You can skip to 2:55 for the quote, but the entire video is about a minimalist GM kit she assembled, and is really worth a full viewing.

I appreciate that Kelsey doesn't make her personal relationship preferences a marketing point. She's really down-to-earth, not an "activist" and just enjoys gaming old school.

And her wife is credited on the KS project as well.

I said this earlier and I'll say it again, they have loads of virtue signaling ammo, but they aren't using it. This tells me they are just regular gamers who are serious about their project.

Quote from: Feratu on March 03, 2023, 11:14:09 AM
Kelsey writes good stuff, and I have purchased physical products from her Arcane Library. For any dudes thirsting, though... They may be disappointed. A few years back, she stated that she has a girlfriend.

YouTube video: https://youtu.be/xWLUJYlYymQ

Clearly just needs a Real Man like Pundit to 'cure' her. 

Quote from: S'mon on March 03, 2023, 10:34:27 AM

Started yesterday at https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/msg1245912/#msg1245912

Then there was a spat on Twitter, with Pundit criticising her, people calling him a Nazi, etc etc.

Thanks S'mon. Appreciate it.

Yes, in one of the recent videos there's clear indication that she has a wife.  As there's clearly been no agenda, and has nothing to with the product itself, I didn't feel it was worth a mention. 

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 03, 2023, 11:31:47 AM
I said this earlier and I'll say it again, they have loads of virtue signaling ammo, but they aren't using it.

Ayup. It's almost uncanny! I see Kelsey even deleted her Pundit-criticising Tweet, even though stirring up the Twitterati against Pundit could likely have generated more backers for her Kickstarter.

Assuming this wasn't all some cunning ploy to generate interest in a Green-list/non-Woke OSR project, I feel Pundit could barely have found a worse target if he'd tried.

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 03, 2023, 11:31:47 AM
This tells me they are just regular gamers who are serious about their project.

Exactly...

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 03, 2023, 09:23:44 AM
Does this new game bring anything innovative to the table?  Anything I haven't already houseruled into my own games during my 42-years of playing?

No, not really. But the vast majority of players aren't going to take the time to house rule OSR from different sources into something they like.

So far I've been digging into the game thinking I'm finding flaws here and there, but then seeing those decisions are actually balanced. The game feels like someone took OSE, collected and tweaked a lot of house rules, did some core balance changes(short bows are d4 damage, torches/food are balanced against inventory slots) and spent 3 years play testing it at the tables of some decent designers.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 03, 2023, 11:32:32 AM
Thanks S'mon. Appreciate it.

Looking at Twitter, they seem to have kissed & made up now. Overall been very impressed by this Kelsey lass #nothirst 

Quote from: S'mon on March 03, 2023, 11:36:40 AM
Assuming this wasn't all some cunning ploy to generate interest in a Green-list/non-Woke OSR project, I feel Pundit could barely have found a worse target if he'd tried.

I dismissed this because if Pundit was going to be that duplicitous, he'd do it with much more aplomb and it would be super entertaining.

The sudden and sustained push is inorganic.  Post after post in all the OSR subreddits, accounts advertising it in every possible place, but actual /r/shadowdark is sparse?  There's some minor shill stuff happening.  I think Pundit was just reacting to that.  Personally, I'm fine with all that.  When I watch Questing Beast, I assume he's paid, I think that's actually just how he works.  He goes over the product in some decent detail, and this one is no different.  I don't see much difference between this type of content and when I would go read some magazine at the bookstore as a kid, jam packed full of exciting ads and occasional discussion, be it about roleplaying games or video games.  I think Pundit just wants things to be more ethical than they are or ever were.

Quote from: Venka on March 03, 2023, 01:24:11 PM
When I watch Questing Beast, I assume he's paid, I think that's actually just how he works.  He goes over the product in some decent detail, and this one is no different.  I don't see much difference between this type of content and when I would go read some magazine at the bookstore as a kid, jam packed full of exciting ads and occasional discussion, be it about roleplaying games or video games.  I think Pundit just wants things to be more ethical than they are or ever were.

I feel now like Questing Beast material ought to have a big Red Hand and a "WARNING: PAID MATERIAL!" disclaimer on it.

Venka put it best; it just feels inorganic. Maybe there was a little cash or some advance copies changing hands, or maybe it was just some people in a particular internet circle using their clout and audience to do someone else in the circle a solid.
I've got nothing against the game or it's the creator, or the success of either. It all just felt like one big Ad, is all I'm saying.

Greetings!

Well, there we go. I just completed pledging for the Legend package. $159 bucks gets me everything in PDF and in PRINT. I also get a second *premium* Core Rulebook with the fancy cover. I don't really care about the PDF stuff though, honestly. I'm a book guy. *Laughing*. I guess it will be cool to have an additional copy of the rules though. That way, one can stay in the bookshelf for reference, while the normal copy can be used in combat, with being around cigars, mgs of coffee, and occasional shots of Tequila. And pizza. I hope the game is awesome! Everything looks good.

I am kind of wondering though...Kickstarter took my card information, but not anything about my mailing address. So, how is Kelsey going to send me my books? Apparently, Kelsey will bite me for the $159 dollars on March 30. I've never done Kickstarters, so I do not know how this stuff works.

As for Pundit's commentary, yeah. I have to agree with my friend S'mon. Kelsey and Shadowdark was definitely the wrong target to bark after. Pundit's commentary didn't look good, and came across, *shrugs*--unnecessarily aggressive, suspicious, and provocative. Even if you ignore all the whining Woke crybaby enemies that Pundit has--and evidently, there really are *hordes* of them--even for normal OSR gamers and *fans and supporters of Pundit*--like myself--Pundit's approach was not a good look. I read more than one comment from Pundit supporters commenting something like "Dude, what are you doing? Not good, man." And similar. I hope Pundit can learn to be more polished and polite with people, especially to relative newcomers or people that do not have some kind of pre-existing animosity with him, or the OSR hobby.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on March 03, 2023, 06:22:36 PM
I hope Pundit can learn to be more polished and polite with people, especially to relative newcomers or people that do not have some kind of pre-existing animosity with him, or the OSR hobby.

Indeed... Pundit came across as a tad foolish here, and quite a few of the good OSR crowd on YT came out to support her.

PS - Re. your card. I'm sure they will ask you for a survey when they actually take your money (AFAIK).

With Kickstarter, the creator will send out surveys for things like shipping info or in-book naming credit. Once you've filled out your first, it's generally just a simple matter of confirming your previous info if you back another Kickstarter. I believe you can also go into your Kickstarter account to change your saved information if you move or something else changes.

Ehhh.  So a industry vet "pre-markets" her kickstarter on Youtube.  Makes financial and marketing sense, sure.  But does it equal quality?  I mean, if she's friends with the Youtubers she's not paying, how is that any more reliable?  Do you honestly think any of them are going to tear down a friend's game publicly?  Take food off her table?

See, this is the problem with hype.  And at this point, this game is all hype.  No one here has played it.  No one has seen anything other than previews and carefully presented material.  So, at this moment, everyone who is enthusiastic about this product is doing so based on faith.  Now, could it be good?  Sure.  The fact that she's got some good (so I've been told) modules under her belt is very encouraging.  This could be a good game.  Or it could be crap.  And no one knows (at least no one not in the marketing of the game...).

And that's why the OP was right.  There is something "off" here.  But it's not something malicious or nefarious.  It's just that she has played the hype machine perfectly.  Which means NOTHING about the actual quality of the game.  But the hype is the "something."  If people haven't learned to distrust hype, based on the last few years of kickstarter and media (including lots of hype not related to gaming), then I guess we are just that stupid as a species.

Note: I'm not knocking the people who are supporting this.  I've supported kickstarters based on what I hoped they would be before myself.  So I'm not criticizing that.  I just hope people will be a little more self-aware about their reasoning and risk.  And not let hype blind them.  So I've got no problem with Pundit asking questions.  Because hype, by its very nature, is suspicious.  It's the double-edged sword of hype.  If it's great, it'll usually get hyped.  But if it's great, why does it need to be hyped?  So when I see hype before I see great, it makes me wary...