Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM
A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

All of the quotes below are in the free quickstart rules:

"The Shadowdark is any place
where danger and darkness hold
sway. It clutches ancient secrets
and dusty treasures in its rotting
claws, daring fortune seekers to
tempt their fates."

Examples given include "buried ruins, lost cities, spider-infested forests, and even fearsome dragon lairs"

Another quote: "At times the Shadowdark seemed sentient in its malevolence. It was as though some hand guided it."

So it's not a specific place like the Forgotten Realms' Underdark. Nor is it a thing per se. As I read it, the Shadowdark is more of a game style.

I caved last night and bought in.

Is it revolutionary? No.

Is it a solid ruleset for a beer and pretzels game? Yes. It's nothing that someone couldn't do on their own, but as a package it seems very playable, easy to teach and a good middle ground between b/x and 5e that tosses the things I hate from 5e.

Quote from: shoplifter on May 10, 2023, 09:54:47 AM
I caved last night and bought in.

Is it revolutionary? No.

Is it a solid ruleset for a beer and pretzels game? Yes. It's nothing that someone couldn't do on their own, but as a package it seems very playable, easy to teach and a good middle ground between b/x and 5e that tosses the things I hate from 5e.

Shadowdark is an evolutionary product and ruleset.  It's a tightly packed ruleset with very terse writing that does exactly as you say: rips away the chuft of 5e and brings those rules that are familiar to 5e in a package that is very OSR-like.

I was able to teach someone that has never played a TTRPG , barely heard of D&D before she met me, and she was able to jump in and play a level 2 cleric through a 4hr multi-part adventure with skill checks, combat, Role-playing, etc.  I showed her the 5E PC sheet and she said "That's too much, no thanks".   

We are redoing the SD PC Sheet because we need more areas to put in other fiddly bits that we found lacking: spells, actions (free/reaction), and more space for talents and skills

 I took a look at the blurb and briefly glanced at some quickstart material. I got the sense that this was supposed to be a real time sensitive game requiring quick action before the torchlight runs out. The equipment has torches & lanterns cheaply available, so what prevents adventurers from just lighting another one? I guess I don't get how the time sensitive gimmick is supposed to work. Has anyone who has has read the material more thoroughly got an idea of how this is supposed to work?

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:18:53 AM
I took a look at the blurb and briefly glanced at some quickstart material. I got the sense that this was supposed to be a real time sensitive game requiring quick action before the torchlight runs out. The equipment has torches & lanterns cheaply available, so what prevents adventurers from just lighting another one? I guess I don't get how the time sensitive gimmick is supposed to work. Has anyone who has has read the material more thoroughly got an idea of how this is supposed to work?

Gear slots: You have 10+STR modifier if positive. Everything takes equipment slots which you'll read in the quickstart under "GEAR"

Quote
GEAR SLOTS
You can carry a number of items equal to your Strength stat or 10,
whichever is higher.
Unless noted, all gear besides typical clothing fills one gear slot.
Gear that is hard to transport might fill more than one slot.

Every item takes up one or more slots. A single torch, lamp, flask of oil? All one slot each.  Your wizard with 8 strength with rations, a staff, some magical potions? They aren't packing 20+ torches.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on May 10, 2023, 10:20:56 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:18:53 AM
I took a look at the blurb and briefly glanced at some quickstart material. I got the sense that this was supposed to be a real time sensitive game requiring quick action before the torchlight runs out. The equipment has torches & lanterns cheaply available, so what prevents adventurers from just lighting another one? I guess I don't get how the time sensitive gimmick is supposed to work. Has anyone who has has read the material more thoroughly got an idea of how this is supposed to work?

Gear slots: You have 10+STR modifier if positive. Everything takes equipment slots which you'll read in the quickstart under "GEAR"

Quote
GEAR SLOTS
You can carry a number of items equal to your Strength stat or 10,
whichever is higher.
Unless noted, all gear besides typical clothing fills one gear slot.
Gear that is hard to transport might fill more than one slot.

Every item takes up one or more slots. A single torch, lamp, flask of oil? All one slot each.  Your wizard with 8 strength with rations, a staff, some magical potions? They aren't packing 20+ torches.

Thanks. So it sounds like an an adventurer with typical gear starts at or close to full capacity. How does that work with treasure? Are players supposed to ditch all of their armor & equipment to carry any treasure?

Greetings!

Oh yeah! ShadowDark is *awesome*!!! I love how simple and quick everything in the system is, and the brutal grittiness. Most Characters are typically not going to be carrying more than two or three torches, max. Having the lights go out means you are fucked. Darkness, absolutely blind, Disadvantage on everything. That means you are pretty much doomed to suffer fast and hard, and die quickly.

So, yeah, I know the mechanic and the dynamic seems stupidly simple--and it is--but it really does establish the dynamic of limited resources, and brutal consequences, while highlighting the group's ever-present consciousness of limited light, and the driving need for speed. The wonderful Gear Slot rules are HARD CODED. As the GM, you want to stay away from space and resource hand-wavers for the party. Maintaining that HARD CODED Gear Slot dynamic bleeds into not just precious light resources, but everything else as well, like food and water, other essential supplies, and that doesn't account for also somehow keeping space available for *Treasure*. These CASCADE EFFECTS serve to really put a giant BOOT in the player's asses, and dramatically changes how the party goes about doing things.

ShadowDark really does take a giant, Viking AXE to all of the 5E BABY FAT and cuts it away entirely, and in ruthless and brutal fashion. I love how ShadowDark just *DESTROYS* the entire 5E framework of making Player Characters fucking *Super-Heroes*. That is all gone, baby. The Player Characters get to wake up in a whole new reality.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:38:51 AM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on May 10, 2023, 10:20:56 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:18:53 AM
I took a look at the blurb and briefly glanced at some quickstart material. I got the sense that this was supposed to be a real time sensitive game requiring quick action before the torchlight runs out. The equipment has torches & lanterns cheaply available, so what prevents adventurers from just lighting another one? I guess I don't get how the time sensitive gimmick is supposed to work. Has anyone who has has read the material more thoroughly got an idea of how this is supposed to work?

Gear slots: You have 10+STR modifier if positive. Everything takes equipment slots which you'll read in the quickstart under "GEAR"

Quote
GEAR SLOTS
You can carry a number of items equal to your Strength stat or 10,
whichever is higher.
Unless noted, all gear besides typical clothing fills one gear slot.
Gear that is hard to transport might fill more than one slot.

Every item takes up one or more slots. A single torch, lamp, flask of oil? All one slot each.  Your wizard with 8 strength with rations, a staff, some magical potions? They aren't packing 20+ torches.

Thanks. So it sounds like an an adventurer with typical gear starts at or close to full capacity. How does that work with treasure? Are players supposed to ditch all of their armor & equipment to carry any treasure?

Greetings!

Hi, Exploderwizard! As I alluded to in my previous commentary, concerning treasure, yeah, very much so, my friend. Depending on the Character's Strength score, carrying treasure is a HUGE dilemma. TOUGH CHOICES need to be made, some sooner, and some later. Essential requirements do not really ever go away, like armour, weapons, food, torches, all that stuff takes of Gear Slots, which you always need, going into dangerous places--and also seeking to get out, and make it back to civilization. Somehow making room for treasure...yeah, definitely some risks involved, risk assessment, and hard choices!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:38:51 AM


Thanks. So it sounds like an an adventurer with typical gear starts at or close to full capacity. How does that work with treasure? Are players supposed to ditch all of their armor & equipment to carry any treasure?

Same Gear section: 100 coins=1 gear slot. You aren't carrying 1000coins and a full backpack of torches, weapons, rations, etc. unless you are a Fighter who gets bonus' for carrying things.

Do you need those 3 extra days of food/water, that 50' of rope, or that chest packed in riches.  Make your Choice ---Jigsaw

Quote from: THE_Leopold on May 10, 2023, 11:05:40 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:38:51 AM


Thanks. So it sounds like an an adventurer with typical gear starts at or close to full capacity. How does that work with treasure? Are players supposed to ditch all of their armor & equipment to carry any treasure?

Same Gear section: 100 coins=1 gear slot. You aren't carrying 1000coins and a full backpack of torches, weapons, rations, etc. unless you are a Fighter who gets bonus' for carrying things.

Do you need those 3 extra days of food/water, that 50' of rope, or that chest packed in riches.  Make your Choice ---Jigsaw

Tough choices are good!

Bring retainers and try not to get them killed if they are carrying all the torches, food, and loot. If they do get killed, then decide which of the torches, food, and loot are most important.

Does SD encourage retainers and followers?

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 10, 2023, 11:17:32 AM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on May 10, 2023, 11:05:40 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 10, 2023, 10:38:51 AM


Thanks. So it sounds like an an adventurer with typical gear starts at or close to full capacity. How does that work with treasure? Are players supposed to ditch all of their armor & equipment to carry any treasure?

Same Gear section: 100 coins=1 gear slot. You aren't carrying 1000coins and a full backpack of torches, weapons, rations, etc. unless you are a Fighter who gets bonus' for carrying things.

Do you need those 3 extra days of food/water, that 50' of rope, or that chest packed in riches.  Make your Choice ---Jigsaw

Tough choices are good!

Bring retainers and try not to get them killed if they are carrying all the torches, food, and loot. If they do get killed, then decide which of the torches, food, and loot are most important.

Does SD encourage retainers and followers?

There are no explicit rules for either retainers or followers which would more than likely be 0-level NPC's of some sort. 

You do get titles when you level up which COULD indicate you gete retainers or followers.   That's upto you and the DM.

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 09:18:07 PM
Funny enough, that's actually what reminded me about it. I assumed Darkbad was explicitly riffing on something in Shadowdark.

Darkbad is explicitly riffing on everything in Shadowdark.  Like it packs a lot of satire into just a few pages.  The "roll for ethnicity" table is just a matrix of punchlines, each better than the last.

It's really excellent work.  The grandest piece is probably the final page, but the best point about Shadowdark is IMO the magic table.  Critical fumbles, an idea that can be done correctly but almost never are, applied in a way much more brutal than "you stab yourself with your sword", and mocked very well with that table.

I backed the  physical edition yesterday and after digging through the pdf I'm pretty happy with my decision. Now I just gotta hope the book gets here ASAP because I it looks gorgeous and there's just something about digest sized ttrpg books that I love.

Arcane Library appears by all amounts to not have any public woke bullshit. No "inclusivity" nonsense shoehorned in. And after watching some of Kelsey's videos, she seems like a genuinely pleasant person and knows what she's talking about.

Outclassed by​ Darkbad which is free and took only a day to make!

Quote from: Monero on June 11, 2023, 02:04:51 AM
Arcane Library appears by all amounts to not have any public woke bullshit. No "inclusivity" nonsense shoehorned in. And after watching some of Kelsey's videos, she seems like a genuinely pleasant person and knows what she's talking about.

It's going to depend on the community around the game as well.  I'm actually dealing with a situation right now that's given me a bit of pause, though I'm going to hold out and see how it goes before I discuss it here.  Note this is a local issue, and NOT a situation involving Arcane Library or the greater internet community around the game as a whole.  Just wanted to make that clear before anyone jumps to any conclusions.