Shadowdark: something feels a bit off...

MadMattUK · May 02, 2023, 05:23:07 PM

I have now played 2 separate Shadowdark sessions with players who, up to now, have almost exclusively played 5e. After some initial grumbling about the down the line character generation they came to appreciate the possibility of characters having significant flaws and the danger of going unconscious with one hit. Both of these are characteristics that I would associate with the OSR and that are generally lacking in 5e.

A good time was had by all and I have been asked to run some more.

Jaeger · May 02, 2023, 06:20:37 PM

Quote from: MadMattUK on May 02, 2023, 05:23:07 PM
I have now played 2 separate Shadowdark sessions with players who, up to now, have almost exclusively played 5e. After some initial grumbling about the down the line character generation they came to appreciate the possibility of characters having significant flaws and the danger of going unconscious with one hit. Both of these are characteristics that I would associate with the OSR and that are generally lacking in 5e.

A good time was had by all and I have been asked to run some more.

Easiest fix in the world: 4d6 drop the lowest arrange to suit. It would make no difference in actual play at the table.

In my opinion; 3d6 down the line is more of an OSR street cred thing than some secret ingredient essential to OSR play.

migo · May 02, 2023, 06:26:04 PM

If you're going to do 3d6 down the line it should be on an OD&D chassis, with just a +1 modifier for 14 or higher, and otherwise nothing else. Then the stats are just roleplaying inspiration. Or a system like Castles & Crusades where the primary attribute system means mediocre stats aren't much of a hindrance.

But the moment you go for a standard system with B/X or worse 3.x modifiers, rolling down the line is a terrible idea.

Festus · May 04, 2023, 03:24:58 PM

Quote from: migo on May 02, 2023, 06:26:04 PM
If you're going to do 3d6 down the line it should be on an OD&D chassis, with just a +1 modifier for 14 or higher, and otherwise nothing else. Then the stats are just roleplaying inspiration. Or a system like Castles & Crusades where the primary attribute system means mediocre stats aren't much of a hindrance.

But the moment you go for a standard system with B/X or worse 3.x modifiers, rolling down the line is a terrible idea.

Either 3d6 down the line (or something similarly random) because part of the game is "playing the hand you're dealt" or point buy because the design is to build whatever character you can imagine. To me anything in between fails at both design goals without adding much value. It's just mitigating player dissatisfaction.

Jaeger · May 04, 2023, 04:27:28 PM

Quote from: Festus on May 04, 2023, 03:24:58 PM
Either 3d6 down the line (or something similarly random) because part of the game is "playing the hand you're dealt" or point buy because the design is to build whatever character you can imagine. To me anything in between fails at both design goals without adding much value. It's just mitigating player dissatisfaction.

It's interesting how much tastes vary.

For me; it's the in-between method of 4d6 drop lowest + arrange to suit, that appeals most.

You're probably not gonna get anything outright bad, but probably not your absolute ideal either - so you have to make a value judgement of what kind of PC you want to play given what you have.

It avoids the situation where a player's PC class is entirely dictated by the dice, and as a GM I don't have to put up with any point-buy wankery during PC generation.

One man's features are another mans Bugs...

ForgottenF · May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM

A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

THE_Leopold · May 09, 2023, 06:09:33 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM
A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

I don't see any of that kind of Cosmic Entity that is in the book that would qualify under that type of 'game mechanic' . There are a handful of gods that for the various alignments such as "The Lost" may be what you are thinking of. the gods are all flavor text no crunch with them.

FingerRod · May 09, 2023, 07:14:55 PM

I really like her writing style based on the QuickStart.

ForgottenF · May 09, 2023, 07:45:02 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on May 09, 2023, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM
A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

I don't see any of that kind of Cosmic Entity that is in the book that would qualify under that type of 'game mechanic' . There are a handful of gods that for the various alignments such as "The Lost" may be what you are thinking of. the gods are all flavor text no crunch with them.

I wish I could remember whose video it was that gave me that idea. Oh well, at least that saves me $60. Guess I'll go off and write those rules myself.

rytrasmi · May 09, 2023, 08:03:33 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM
A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

I got ya:

Quote from: Darkbad
The Darkbad
The Darkbad is dark and bad. It is an underworld, and kind of mythic. One could call it the legendary belowground. It is full of darkness.

Grognard GM · May 09, 2023, 08:11:41 PM

Quote from: Darkbad
The Darkbad
The Darkbad is dark and bad. It is an underworld, and kind of mythic. One could call it the legendary belowground. It is full of darkness.

I find this to be WeakLame.

ForgottenF · May 09, 2023, 09:18:07 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 09, 2023, 08:03:33 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM
A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

I got ya:

Quote from: Darkbad
The Darkbad
The Darkbad is dark and bad. It is an underworld, and kind of mythic. One could call it the legendary belowground. It is full of darkness.

Funny enough, that's actually what reminded me about it. I assumed Darkbad was explicitly riffing on something in Shadowdark.

VisionStorm · May 09, 2023, 09:58:36 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 09, 2023, 08:03:33 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 05:32:28 PM
A question for those of you that bought this thing:

I remember there being some discussion in the various previews for the game about the idea that "the Shadowdark" was more than just underground places without ambient light. I.e., that it was some kind of metaphysical or cosmic force that exerted an influence on the game world, and impose special rules (maybe something like the torchlight/darkness mechanic in Darkest Dungeon). I thought that looked like being the game's one unique selling point, but didn't see anything about it in the Quickstart. Is there anything in the full book?

I got ya:

Quote from: Darkbad
The Darkbad
The Darkbad is dark and bad. It is an underworld, and kind of mythic. One could call it the legendary belowground. It is full of darkness.

This thing sounds like silly baby talk. I'm embarrassed that someone even thought to include that in a serious RPG.

And Shadowdark doesn't even sound that bad—kinda catchy. But "The Darkbad"? C'mon! And "the legendary belowground"? Does this chick even know how to come up with names for game locations and such, or expressions used to refer to them?

rytrasmi · May 09, 2023, 10:08:43 PM

It's from a parody. See the other thread. I should have been clearer.

A good parody rings true, so...

VisionStorm · May 09, 2023, 10:15:24 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 09, 2023, 10:08:43 PM
It's from a parody. See the other thread. I should have been clearer.

A good parody rings true, so...

Ah, that makes more sense! I haven't been following the other thread. Barely followed this one for the last couple of pages.