Quote from: Slambo on March 17, 2023, 12:20:45 AM
Basic fantasy doesnt have race as class

Maybe he confused it with Labyrinth Lord.

Quote from: Slambo on March 17, 2023, 12:20:45 AM

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 09:06:02 PM

Quote from: Plotinus on March 16, 2023, 08:56:01 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 16, 2023, 03:56:41 PM
The question regarding ShadowDark is this:

What does ShadowDark give me that I can't do with OSE or any other OSR product?

So far, it doesn't impress me much.

I mean, you could argue that every OSR game has failed this test since Basic Fantasy RPG came out in February 2007. Hell, you could probably argue that every OSR game has failed this test since Hackmaster came out in 2001.

HackMaster was a joke system, literally and figuratively.

Castles & Crusades breaks at higher levels if you try running AD&D modules with it.

OSRIC is an AD&D 1e clone, and there's a reason many people moved on to 2e, and also away from AD&D entirely.

Basic Fantasy has the stupidity of race as class. Sure there are people who like it, but it's still stupid and is right from the start a reason not to play it. The Thief was also shit, which is characteristic of OSR games still being released today.

Lamentations of the Flame Princess is the first system that got a reasonable amount of attention that was actually serious (to the extent that serious gonzo is possible), could actually scale to higher levels, was simpler than AD&D, and had an implementation of the Thief class that wasn't garbage. You could actually play it as is with humans only and stripping the demi-humans out.

Finding the right balance, so that it doesn't change too much to lose compatibility but still changes enough that it doesn't irritate you the same as when you left D&D looking for another system is tricky to achieve, and people are still looking for a system that is like that.

Basic fantasy doesnt have race as class

My mistake. The Thief is still garbage though.

So from the video and everything else I have read, there is nothing that it does I can do elsewhere.  So no need to even get this.

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 09:06:02 PM
HackMaster was a joke system, literally and figuratively.

It might have started out that way, but I've gotten a lot of milage out of that "joke".

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 17, 2023, 02:33:44 PM

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 09:06:02 PM
HackMaster was a joke system, literally and figuratively.

It might have started out that way, but I've gotten a lot of milage out of that "joke".

Hackmaster 4e is a joke if taken in its entirety and at face value, but strip away the humor and some of the more insane yet hilarious chrome and it is a pretty darn good evolution of 1e if you go the "crunchier is better" route. I look at it quite frequently for inspiration or just for the good mood that reading it creates. I have never read an interview with the authors where they discuss the back-and-forth creative process between parody and seriousness that these rules represent.

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 17, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
So from the video and everything else I have read, there is nothing that it does I can do elsewhere.  So no need to even get this.

This, exactly.

Quote from: Bruwulf on March 17, 2023, 02:33:44 PM

Quote from: migo on March 16, 2023, 09:06:02 PM
HackMaster was a joke system, literally and figuratively.

It might have started out that way, but I've gotten a lot of milage out of that "joke".

Yup, some of the joy I get out of reading these books is amazing. I consider 4e Hackmaster to be some of the best rpg books created.

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 17, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
So from the video and everything else I have read, there is nothing that it does I can do elsewhere.  So no need to even get this.

Same.  I got the quick start a few days ago and read/skimmed through it. I honestly don't see why this is thought to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, the apotheosis of OS rule set creation. This whole situation reminds me of the wildfire, backer impulse hysteria during Reaper's first Bones kickstarter, except in this case as Jaeger (I  think) pointed out, it's a girl making a 'what-if-5e-and-OSR-had-a-baby' game. If Ye Olde Neckbeard made the exact rule set, word for word with the same art, there'd be 1/10th the excitement.

That said, the more people she weans off WOTC's tit, the better for everyone, and I'm all for it. Once they're on this side of the fence, there's plenty of other rules sets for them to explore. Before you know it, there'll be tens of thousands of more people spitting on story games.

It's important to note though, once she gets a million dollars under her belt, the Shadowdark brand name becomes an easy target for the cancel brigades and she'll not want to jeopardize that.  Race to Ancestry may be a hint of things to come.

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 18, 2023, 04:33:45 AM
It's important to note though, once she gets a million dollars under her belt, the Shadowdark brand name becomes an easy target for the cancel brigades and she'll not want to jeopardize that.  Race to Ancestry may be a hint of things to come.

Yes. Of course there she may also weigh being able to weather the storm since she is a woman married to another woman. It will be quite the thing if they try cancelling one of the hobby's most successful female game designers in recent history.

Quote from: migo on March 18, 2023, 10:09:31 AM

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 18, 2023, 04:33:45 AM
It's important to note though, once she gets a million dollars under her belt, the Shadowdark brand name becomes an easy target for the cancel brigades and she'll not want to jeopardize that.  Race to Ancestry may be a hint of things to come.

Yes. Of course there she may also weigh being able to weather the storm since she is a woman married to another woman. It will be quite the thing if they try cancelling one of the hobby's most successful female game designers in recent history.

I'm sorry?  Are you new to woke planet Earth?  The first black Secretary of State was Colin Powell.  Would the left cancel that achievement just because... oh, wait.  How many examples do you need?  J. K. Rowling?  Denise Young Smith (Apple)?  Or just recently Dr. Tabia Lee (who is black and was accused of being a white supremacist, even)?

The moment she (or anyone) contradicts the woke, it doesn't matter what her bona fides are.  She'll be toast, unless she bends the knee...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 18, 2023, 11:22:53 AM

Quote from: migo on March 18, 2023, 10:09:31 AM

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 18, 2023, 04:33:45 AM
It's important to note though, once she gets a million dollars under her belt, the Shadowdark brand name becomes an easy target for the cancel brigades and she'll not want to jeopardize that.  Race to Ancestry may be a hint of things to come.

Yes. Of course there she may also weigh being able to weather the storm since she is a woman married to another woman. It will be quite the thing if they try cancelling one of the hobby's most successful female game designers in recent history.

I'm sorry?  Are you new to woke planet Earth?  The first black Secretary of State was Colin Powell.  Would the left cancel that achievement just because... oh, wait.  How many examples do you need?  J. K. Rowling?  Denise Young Smith (Apple)?  Or just recently Dr. Tabia Lee (who is black and was accused of being a white supremacist, even)?

The moment she (or anyone) contradicts the woke, it doesn't matter what her bona fides are.  She'll be toast, unless she bends the knee...

Rowling is doing fine. Yes, she was attacked. Fantastic Beasts is continuing to run. Hogwarts Legacy is one of the most popular video games. The question isn't whether they'll attack her. It's whether she can shrug off the attacks. And it's a lot easier for her to get moderate leftists on her side being lesbian and a rare successful female game designer.

Quote from: migo on March 18, 2023, 12:11:34 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 18, 2023, 11:22:53 AM

Quote from: migo on March 18, 2023, 10:09:31 AM

Quote from: Punch and Pie on March 18, 2023, 04:33:45 AM
It's important to note though, once she gets a million dollars under her belt, the Shadowdark brand name becomes an easy target for the cancel brigades and she'll not want to jeopardize that.  Race to Ancestry may be a hint of things to come.

Yes. Of course there she may also weigh being able to weather the storm since she is a woman married to another woman. It will be quite the thing if they try cancelling one of the hobby's most successful female game designers in recent history.

I'm sorry?  Are you new to woke planet Earth?  The first black Secretary of State was Colin Powell.  Would the left cancel that achievement just because... oh, wait.  How many examples do you need?  J. K. Rowling?  Denise Young Smith (Apple)?  Or just recently Dr. Tabia Lee (who is black and was accused of being a white supremacist, even)?

The moment she (or anyone) contradicts the woke, it doesn't matter what her bona fides are.  She'll be toast, unless she bends the knee...

Rowling is doing fine. Yes, she was attacked. Fantastic Beasts is continuing to run. Hogwarts Legacy is one of the most popular video games. The question isn't whether they'll attack her. It's whether she can shrug off the attacks. And it's a lot easier for her to get moderate leftists on her side being lesbian and a rare successful female game designer.

So, you ignore the other examples for the one billionaire.  The "moderate" left won't support her any more than they supported Powell or Smith.  The few who might will be to cowed; the rest don't disagree with the radical left, they just can't be bothered to actually do anything...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 18, 2023, 11:41:01 PM

So, you ignore the other examples for the one billionaire.  The "moderate" left won't support her any more than they supported Powell or Smith.  The few who might will be to cowed; the rest don't disagree with the radical left, they just can't be bothered to actually do anything...

Who in this hobby space has been legitimately cancelled? Zak Smith is about it. James Raggi has even survived it despite continuous attempts to cancel him. Kevin Crawford hasn't even been touched, and he's perfectly content to talk to people right here. The Design Mechanism doesn't seem to have been seriously affected by the boycott over Mythic Polynesia.

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 17, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
So from the video and everything else I have read, there is nothing that it does I can do elsewhere.  So no need to even get this.

That's a pretty lazy excuse.

Barring some extreme cases, once you have a handful of games there isn't anything another could offer that you couldn't already do with the ones you have.

Quote from: rgalex on March 19, 2023, 04:35:27 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 17, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
So from the video and everything else I have read, there is nothing that it does I can do elsewhere.  So no need to even get this.

That's a pretty lazy excuse.

Barring some extreme cases, once you have a handful of games there isn't anything another could offer that you couldn't already do with the ones you have.

That's what makes it so incredibly difficult to convince people to try a new system. I'm sure almost everyone here has experienced buying a new game, being really excited about it, pitching it to your gaming group and not having any takers.