Quote from: Jason Coplen on March 10, 2023, 01:37:15 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 09, 2023, 04:17:05 PM

Quote from: rhialto on March 09, 2023, 04:08:51 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 09, 2023, 03:59:00 PM
The real discussion should be about the reviewers, the game is just the catalyst, the 5e players that MIGHT play it are irrelevant.

IMHO the discussion should be centered around the practices on reviewing RPGs.

I think this is true only in the cases where no freely available version is offered, to review oneself. Anyone else's opinion in such cases where a free version is available is...inconsequential? Irrelevant? So, in the case of Shadowdark: if someone is not availing themselves of the quickstart, and only relying on others' opinions, that's their choice, and no one else should care. Maybe a separate thread on reviewers is warranted.

For instance, getting a free copy (when no one else is getting it) of the whole printed book is common practice. Should it be? Wouldn't buying the book be more impartial?

I don't know, but I do know buying your own copy is an investment. Maybe you'd think more of the game, or less in the case it blew goats nuts. Then you'd feel cheated out of x dollars.

this is why i scoured the shit out of the KS and background as I refuse to spend a single dime on woke trash authors who put pronouns in their bio and other virtue signaling .  There is none of this type of behavior anywhere in this specific Kickstarter , nor in the product, nor on the Website, not even on Arcane Library's twitter.

I might be speaking for myself here, but just her being *married* to another woman is a downvote. Looking at the non-existence of gender and the stigmatization of whites, we've got this far because of the emboldened trouncing that the definition of marriage got under Obama.

If it's still horrendous and vile Nazism for daring to suggest civil unions as a compromise for gay marriage, I'm not dropping a penny for it.

Quote from: Dispotatic254 on March 10, 2023, 05:30:58 PM
I might be speaking for myself here, but just her being *married* to another woman is a downvote. Looking at the non-existence of gender and the stigmatization of whites, we've got this far because of the emboldened trouncing that the definition of marriage got under Obama.

If it's still horrendous and vile Nazism for daring to suggest civil unions as a compromise for gay marriage, I'm not dropping a penny for it.

This has nothing to do with her ability to create a game.

Downvoting the game because she's married to a woman is retarded.

Quote from: Dispotatic254 on March 10, 2023, 05:30:58 PM
I might be speaking for myself here,

Yes, you are. Deciding to not buy the game because they are married is retarded.

Quote from: FingerRod on March 11, 2023, 11:40:06 AM
This has nothing to do with her ability to create a game.

Downvoting the game because she's married to a woman is retarded.

Quote from: the crypt keeper on March 11, 2023, 12:33:29 PM
Yes, you are. Deciding to not buy the game because they are married is retarded.

Maybe in a different era with a different paradigm I wouldn't have cared much, and I could apply that to Roe v Wade as well, but we don't have that different era or paradigm and down the rather slippery slope we went. It has everything to do with how she's going to use that union to browbeat you with woke justifications in the here and now, so that's all that I can afford to care about given the track record of who she is either appeasing or even covering for, and we can't know that difference until she finally says something.

The very concept of gay marriage disdains the traditions of heterosexual partnering and the legacy of the family across the world, let alone the grievance politics and delusions of biology behind it all. Her marriage is a political statement enough that its only fair play to dismiss this one-off work after entire conservative lives have already been ruined with a quick and unquestioned empty accusation of fascism.

Quote from: ~~ on March 11, 2023, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on March 11, 2023, 11:40:06 AM
This has nothing to do with her ability to create a game.

Downvoting the game because she's married to a woman is retarded.

Quote from: the crypt keeper on March 11, 2023, 12:33:29 PM
Yes, you are. Deciding to not buy the game because they are married is retarded.

Maybe in a different era with a different paradigm I wouldn't have cared much, and I could apply that to Roe v Wade as well, but we don't have that different era or paradigm and down the rather slippery slope we went. It has everything to do with how she's going to use that union to browbeat you with woke justifications in the here and now, so that's all that I can afford to care about given the track record of who she is either appeasing or even covering for, and we can't know that difference until she finally says something.

The very concept of gay marriage disdains the traditions of heterosexual partnering and the legacy of the family across the world, let alone the grievance politics and delusions of biology behind it all. Her marriage is a political statement enough that its only fair play to dismiss this one-off work after entire conservative lives have already been ruined with a quick and unquestioned empty accusation of fascism.

Over five years of tape on her company. Zero evidence or occurrences of her brow-beating anybody with anything. Over those five years the company has managed to do what you couldn't with this single post.

Not everything is a political statement. I do not own a gun out of political support for the second amendment. I own a gun to shoot somebody if they break into my house.

Quote from: ~~ on March 11, 2023, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on March 11, 2023, 11:40:06 AM
This has nothing to do with her ability to create a game.

Downvoting the game because she's married to a woman is retarded.

Quote from: the crypt keeper on March 11, 2023, 12:33:29 PM
Yes, you are. Deciding to not buy the game because they are married is retarded.

Maybe in a different era with a different paradigm I wouldn't have cared much, and I could apply that to Roe v Wade as well, but we don't have that different era or paradigm and down the rather slippery slope we went. It has everything to do with how she's going to use that union to browbeat you with woke justifications in the here and now, so that's all that I can afford to care about given the track record of who she is either appeasing or even covering for, and we can't know that difference until she finally says something.

The very concept of gay marriage disdains the traditions of heterosexual partnering and the legacy of the family across the world, let alone the grievance politics and delusions of biology behind it all. Her marriage is a political statement enough that its only fair play to dismiss this one-off work after entire conservative lives have already been ruined with a quick and unquestioned empty accusation of fascism.

None of what you said has any bearing on the product in discussion , nor is evident in the body of work described in past work, and nothing to do with determining whether this product meets certain goals of OSR/5e juxtopositioning. 

You are playing the same game as the sparkle brigade woke scolds only replacing social justice words with moral indignation.

In other words: being a retard

Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 12, 2023, 10:41:10 AM
None of what you said has any bearing on the product in discussion , nor is evident in the body of work described in past work, and nothing to do with determining whether this product meets certain goals of OSR/5e juxtopositioning. 

You are playing the same game as the sparkle brigade woke scolds only replacing social justice words with moral indignation.

In other words: being a retard

This is a fair argument, but it misses a key detail. We live in the era of LGBT activism.

Ten years ago, I told Christians they were crazy and overreacting when they said they were afraid that if gay marriage were legalized, activists would be forcing their pastors to perform gay weddings in their churches. I was wrong. That wasn't crazy or an overreaction, it was a legitimate concern. The very first thing activists did after gay marriage was legalized was use the government to violate the First Amendment rights of Christians. It's kind of like how the very first thing Christian activists did in response to Dobbs v Jackson was ban abortion at the state level.

I have rather openly distrusted Christians for thirty years due to the very public behavior of their evangelical wing. The evangelical animosity towards homosexuals played a major role in my negative view of Christianity. They're all Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson to me. So consider the source when I say this:

There is zero reason for Christians to trust any person with a rainbow alphabet identity. The activist class of the rainbow alphabet community has proven that their goal is to humiliate and defile Christians.

Remember the last Rainbow Identity we embraced "because it wasn't woke"? I do, wen to Inglorious OSR on Mewe and screencaped a joke by one of the guys there to try and cancel him and the mewe group on the twatter.

Now, I'm not saying Kelsey is the same, she doesn't seem to have swam with the piranhas like Taylor did until they turned on him. But I do understand the reluctance to trust.

The activists are going to cause a backlash that will hurt all the Rainbow brigade, even those who don't agree with them. My advice to all the LGBT people in the RPG industry is this:

Speak out NOW, these people do not have your best interests at heart and will cause hurt to come upon you.

Quote from: Slambo on March 10, 2023, 03:20:03 PM

Quote from: rgalex on March 10, 2023, 11:58:36 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 09, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
Another example, we learned that QB charges for "reviewing" a product... I'm sure there must be others, shouldn't this be a red flag on said reviewer?

I've never listened to QB before.  If he only does paid reviews, has he ever been critical of something he's reviewed?  Has he ever not recommended or given a poor score to something?  If he has, then I'm not so sure there is a problem as he's shown he's willing to criticize/be impartial despite being paid.  If he's only ever given positive reviews then yeah, maybe there should be a flag there.

Theres only 1 negative review i can think he did and it was of Dark Albion. Even yhen it was kinda lukewarm and in his early days. I heard he deleted a few videos of positive reviews of ACKS and Maze of the Blue Medusa but i never saw them i just heard from some people i know who had.

Ah, so on top of it Questing Beast is an ideologically driven cunt.

Quote from: ~~ on March 11, 2023, 09:27:43 PM

Quote from: FingerRod on March 11, 2023, 11:40:06 AM
This has nothing to do with her ability to create a game.

Downvoting the game because she's married to a woman is retarded.

Quote from: the crypt keeper on March 11, 2023, 12:33:29 PM
Yes, you are. Deciding to not buy the game because they are married is retarded.

Maybe in a different era with a different paradigm I wouldn't have cared much, and I could apply that to Roe v Wade as well, but we don't have that different era or paradigm and down the rather slippery slope we went. It has everything to do with how she's going to use that union to browbeat you with woke justifications in the here and now, so that's all that I can afford to care about given the track record of who she is either appeasing or even covering for, and we can't know that difference until she finally says something.

The very concept of gay marriage disdains the traditions of heterosexual partnering and the legacy of the family across the world, let alone the grievance politics and delusions of biology behind it all. Her marriage is a political statement enough that its only fair play to dismiss this one-off work after entire conservative lives have already been ruined with a quick and unquestioned empty accusation of fascism.

Jumping to off-topic political subjects in a thread on the main forum is forbidden.  This is your only warning. Keep posting off the topic and you'll be banned.

Quote from: Corolinth on March 12, 2023, 12:56:49 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 12, 2023, 10:41:10 AM
None of what you said has any bearing on the product in discussion , nor is evident in the body of work described in past work, and nothing to do with determining whether this product meets certain goals of OSR/5e juxtopositioning. 

You are playing the same game as the sparkle brigade woke scolds only replacing social justice words with moral indignation.

In other words: being a retard

This is a fair argument, but it misses a key detail. We live in the era of LGBT activism.

Ten years ago, I told Christians they were crazy and overreacting when they said they were afraid that if gay marriage were legalized, activists would be forcing their pastors to perform gay weddings in their churches. I was wrong. That wasn't crazy or an overreaction, it was a legitimate concern. The very first thing activists did after gay marriage was legalized was use the government to violate the First Amendment rights of Christians. It's kind of like how the very first thing Christian activists did in response to Dobbs v Jackson was ban abortion at the state level.

I have rather openly distrusted Christians for thirty years due to the very public behavior of their evangelical wing. The evangelical animosity towards homosexuals played a major role in my negative view of Christianity. They're all Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson to me. So consider the source when I say this:

There is zero reason for Christians to trust any person with a rainbow alphabet identity. The activist class of the rainbow alphabet community has proven that their goal is to humiliate and defile Christians.

This post is off topic. Making off topic posts, particularly political ones, on the main gaming forum is a violation of the rules. Don't do it again, or there will be consequences.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 12, 2023, 01:12:29 PM
Remember the last Rainbow Identity we embraced "because it wasn't woke"? I do, wen to Inglorious OSR on Mewe and screencaped a joke by one of the guys there to try and cancel him and the mewe group on the twatter.

Now, I'm not saying Kelsey is the same, she doesn't seem to have swam with the piranhas like Taylor did until they turned on him. But I do understand the reluctance to trust.

I remember this event and i absolutely concur with a lack of trust, hence the need to verify and take some overtures with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I believe that few of us desire a negative financal outcome when our research comes up with nothing.  That way lies spite and jealousy instead of goodwill and inclusion (the real kind) into the gaming sphere as a whole.

tenkar ran his group of grognards through a 1st level dungeon and overall the group had positive feedback.  He livestreamed the event from charcter generation to the end of a module whipped up in 10min.    Few critiques: xp system felt too low (1000xp instead of 1) and a more detailed interpretation on the halfling invisibilty ability (is it a spell or not?).

Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 12, 2023, 03:57:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 12, 2023, 01:12:29 PM
Remember the last Rainbow Identity we embraced "because it wasn't woke"? I do, wen to Inglorious OSR on Mewe and screencaped a joke by one of the guys there to try and cancel him and the mewe group on the twatter.

Now, I'm not saying Kelsey is the same, she doesn't seem to have swam with the piranhas like Taylor did until they turned on him. But I do understand the reluctance to trust.

I remember this event and i absolutely concur with a lack of trust, hence the need to verify and take some overtures with a healthy dose of skepticism.

I believe that few of us desire a negative financal outcome when our research comes up with nothing.  That way lies spite and jealousy instead of goodwill and inclusion (the real kind) into the gaming sphere as a whole.

tenkar ran his group of grognards through a 1st level dungeon and overall the group had positive feedback.  He livestreamed the event from charcter generation to the end of a module whipped up in 10min.    Few critiques: xp system felt too low (1000xp instead of 1) and a more detailed interpretation on the halfling invisibilty ability (is it a spell or not?).

Greetings!

Hey Leopold! I also watched Tenkar and his group play during the Live Stream. The game looks good. As you mentioned, everyone in Tenkar's group--Rob Connoly, Joe The Lawyer, and more--all had positive things to say about Shadowdark. The criticisms were few and minor. It seems like this game is going to be HUGE. It seems like it will be bigger than OSE, and become a strong pillar for the OSR in general.

YAY! I think it is great! Kelsey and Shadowdark are bringing more gamers into D&D, and also really bringing them into the OSR style in  a fantastic way. This is awesome, and should be celebrated amongst gamers.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 12, 2023, 02:19:48 PM

Quote from: Slambo on March 10, 2023, 03:20:03 PM

Quote from: rgalex on March 10, 2023, 11:58:36 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 09, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
Another example, we learned that QB charges for "reviewing" a product... I'm sure there must be others, shouldn't this be a red flag on said reviewer?

I've never listened to QB before.  If he only does paid reviews, has he ever been critical of something he's reviewed?  Has he ever not recommended or given a poor score to something?  If he has, then I'm not so sure there is a problem as he's shown he's willing to criticize/be impartial despite being paid.  If he's only ever given positive reviews then yeah, maybe there should be a flag there.

Theres only 1 negative review i can think he did and it was of Dark Albion. Even yhen it was kinda lukewarm and in his early days. I heard he deleted a few videos of positive reviews of ACKS and Maze of the Blue Medusa but i never saw them i just heard from some people i know who had.

Ah, so on top of it Questing Beast is an ideologically driven cunt.

Or caved to the mob to avoid being constantly harassed. He reviewed a LotFP product after the mob was working to cancel them, and had the mob turn on him for it. It may well be he's simply spineless.