Hey, new user here since I'm a big TTRPG guy and also considered both of the things in the thread title. I made this thread to ask what you guys think are the most non-woke settings/systems around?
Apologies if this has been asked before, I wasn't sure how to go about searching for such a topic.
Conversely, what are the MOST obnoxiously woke settings and systems you all have seen?
James (GrimJim) Desborough's Gor RPG* has to be well up there. ;D
*https://post-mort.com/products/tales-of-gor-gorean-roleplaying
woke? What was that Green Ronin one? Something about a unicorn or something?
I'm going to say that Greyhawk and the Judges Guild Wilderlands and City State of the Invincible Overlord would be on the other end of the list. The Tunnels and Trolls setting on the dragon shaped continent of Ralph. Traveller's Third Imperium is a capitalist fantasy. FGU's Space Opera has communist bears but doesn't really make comment on the virtue of their politics. Tekumel is so far from woke that it's in a coma. Lots of stuff from the early days of gaming.
Mutant Chronicles is certainly very nationalistic but that's tongue in cheek at the best of times. Similarly Warhammer 40000 is a fascist fever dream but it's satire. Does being satire flip flop the content?
The Chivalry and Sorcery settings of Arden and Markush are originally fairly historical medieval settings and thus not woke but the current edition and its owners are woke.
Ones I can think of that, for one reason or another, would be offensive to the woke:
Cha'alt
Alpha Blue
Gor
Mystara
Greyhawk
Dark Sun (funny, but this started as politically correct setting in the early 90s)
Anything historic and trying to be accurate
Star Wars, pre-Disney
Stormbringer. The magic revolves around summoned beings (elementals or demons, mostly) and the more powerful require human sacrifice, either killing the victim or offering its body for possession. Demons of Desire would be especially triggering to SJWs -- they are basically sex slaves. Even binding the demons would probably be triggering to them, as it's forcing a sentient creature into slavery of a sort.
Warhammer Fantasy, at least until its more current editions. And Warhammer 40K, of course.
As for "most woke," peruse the Red List and take your pick. Lots to choose from there.
Dragonraid. :D
If SJW's would find Stormbringer offensive, they'd no doubt find Tekumel so.
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 09:02:36 AM
Ones I can think of that, for one reason or another, would be offensive to the woke:
Cha'alt
Alpha Blue
Gor
Mystara
Greyhawk
Dark Sun (funny, but this started as politically correct setting in the early 90s)
Anything historic and trying to be accurate
Star Wars, pre-Disney
Why Mystara? I just started a new game there. It's politically incorrect by 2024 standards as it eg has some countries with slavery. But slaves are mentioned as one sort of Commoner in 2014 5e DnD, though excised by the time of the 2018 Essentials Kit - triggering, I guess. Anything else?
Quote from: S'mon on January 30, 2024, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 09:02:36 AM
Ones I can think of that, for one reason or another, would be offensive to the woke:
Cha'alt
Alpha Blue
Gor
Mystara
Greyhawk
Dark Sun (funny, but this started as politically correct setting in the early 90s)
Anything historic and trying to be accurate
Star Wars, pre-Disney
Why Mystara? I just started a new game there. It's politically incorrect by 2024 standards as it eg has some countries with slavery. But slaves are mentioned as one sort of Commoner in 2014 5e DnD, though excised by the time of the 2018 Essentials Kit - triggering, I guess. Anything else?
Uh... You... :-\
You didn't know that using slavery as anything other than a cudgel to beat up white people is evil? You can't feature slavery in your RPG setting and, Karl Marx forbid, how dare you feature slaves in any direct way at all in any session or adventure.
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 09:02:36 AM
Ones I can think of that, for one reason or another, would be offensive to the woke:
Dark Sun (funny, but this started as politically correct setting in the early 90s)
How was it a PC setting then? I can't tell because I was so young then that I didn't notice such things.
Quote from: Moracai on January 30, 2024, 11:46:10 AM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 09:02:36 AM
Ones I can think of that, for one reason or another, would be offensive to the woke:
Dark Sun (funny, but this started as politically correct setting in the early 90s)
How was it a PC setting then? I can't tell because I was so young then that I didn't notice such things.
It was an environmentalist cautionary tale as well as having several other setting elements that feed into the left leaning world view of the time.
Here's a video covering the setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1vep6rcCI&pp=ygUQZGFyayBzdW4gc2V0dGluZw%3D%3D
Quote from: S'mon on January 30, 2024, 11:37:20 AM
Why Mystara? I just started a new game there. It's politically incorrect by 2024 standards as it eg has some countries with slavery. But slaves are mentioned as one sort of Commoner in 2014 5e DnD, though excised by the time of the 2018 Essentials Kit - triggering, I guess. Anything else?
Orcs of Thar and
The Atruaghin Clans have taken a lot of licks in the past few years.
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 11:58:40 AM
Quote from: Moracai on January 30, 2024, 11:46:10 AM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 09:02:36 AM
Ones I can think of that, for one reason or another, would be offensive to the woke:
Dark Sun (funny, but this started as politically correct setting in the early 90s)
How was it a PC setting then? I can't tell because I was so young then that I didn't notice such things.
It was an environmentalist cautionary tale as well as having several other setting elements that feed into the left leaning world view of the time.
Here's a video covering the setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1vep6rcCI&pp=ygUQZGFyayBzdW4gc2V0dGluZw%3D%3D
So in that same sentiment CP2020 is a wokist game because it is a capitalist dystopian nightmare?
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 30, 2024, 12:34:05 PM
Quote from: S'mon on January 30, 2024, 11:37:20 AM
Why Mystara? I just started a new game there. It's politically incorrect by 2024 standards as it eg has some countries with slavery. But slaves are mentioned as one sort of Commoner in 2014 5e DnD, though excised by the time of the 2018 Essentials Kit - triggering, I guess. Anything else?
Orcs of Thar and The Atruaghin Clans have taken a lot of licks in the past few years.
Ah, right.
Quote from: Moracai on January 30, 2024, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 11:58:40 AM
It was an environmentalist cautionary tale as well as having several other setting elements that feed into the left leaning world view of the time.
Here's a video covering the setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1vep6rcCI&pp=ygUQZGFyayBzdW4gc2V0dGluZw%3D%3D
So in that same sentiment CP2020 is a wokist game because it is a capitalist dystopian nightmare?
It's my understanding that the leftist views and environmentalism were intentional whereas the idea that CP 2020 was a commie prophecy is a modern reinterpretation not intended by Mike & co. back in the day.
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 01:59:59 PM
Quote from: Moracai on January 30, 2024, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 11:58:40 AM
It was an environmentalist cautionary tale as well as having several other setting elements that feed into the left leaning world view of the time.
Here's a video covering the setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1vep6rcCI&pp=ygUQZGFyayBzdW4gc2V0dGluZw%3D%3D
So in that same sentiment CP2020 is a wokist game because it is a capitalist dystopian nightmare?
It's my understanding that the leftist views and environmentalism were intentional whereas the idea that CP 2020 was a commie prophecy is a modern reinterpretation not intended by Mike & co. back in the day.
OK, whatever helps you cope.
As you turn up the cruelty knobs, in the fantasy setting which is Dark Sun; you will hear shrieks of disbelief, from writhing woke-tards. Dark Sun is nice for this, because it's an official D&D setting; published in multiple editions. It was released by both TSR, and WOTC. It's an official part, of their catalog history. Dark Sun is D&D, forever.....
Quote from: Moracai on January 30, 2024, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 01:59:59 PM
Quote from: Moracai on January 30, 2024, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 11:58:40 AM
It was an environmentalist cautionary tale as well as having several other setting elements that feed into the left leaning world view of the time.
Here's a video covering the setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1vep6rcCI&pp=ygUQZGFyayBzdW4gc2V0dGluZw%3D%3D
So in that same sentiment CP2020 is a wokist game because it is a capitalist dystopian nightmare?
It's my understanding that the leftist views and environmentalism were intentional whereas the idea that CP 2020 was a commie prophecy is a modern reinterpretation not intended by Mike & co. back in the day.
OK, whatever helps you cope.
W/e, dude...
Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 11:58:40 AM
It was an environmentalist cautionary tale as well as having several other setting elements that feed into the left leaning world view of the time.
I don't know if I'd call Dark Sun "politically correct" or "woke," but I think it is very much a product of the late 80s/early 90s zeitgeist. Similarly, the Realms feel very 60s to me, Greyhawk (what I know of it) rather 70s, Dragonlance is practically pure 80s fantasy, and Planescape is a child of the 90s. (Mystara feels more idiosyncratic, and Ravenloft actually feels like a setting out of time in some ways.)
Ars Magica - The God of Abraham is real and good and above all other religions (although Christianity/Judaism/Islam are all equally right), Satan and his devils are evil.
W40k - Women can't be Space Marines because the Emperor didn't bother making the process sex inclusive. Also, the Imperium is -correct- in its xenophobia towards non-humans and persecution of human psykers.
Midnight - Orcs are a race created by the god of Evil, who rape dwarves as a weapon of war, and the resulting half-orc/half-dwarf children are treated like trash by the dwarven community. Also, the setting is very much one where everybody is circling the drain before Evil wins.
Exalted 2ed - rapey, heroin-fueled slavery is setting-wide, equality is a lie (Solars>Celestials>DBs>Heroic Mortals>normal people), and your (Solar) character is designed to both rule everything and make it horrible for everyone under them. (Exalted 3ed is retconning almost all of that)
Delta Green - Mythos doesn't care about nationality or ethnicity, so the Tcho-Tcho controlled Tiger Transit (and Black Cod Island folk) are very much a part of the setting. Also have child rapists in the Skoptski, and some Mythos agents are gay/bi.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 30, 2024, 02:47:00 PMRavenloft actually feels like a setting out of time in some ways.
Ravenloft is a product of the 1990's about a fantasy world from the 14th century fused with the Hammer Horror films of the 1960's take on Gothic horror from the 19th century. It makes sense it feels out of time. ;D
Seriously though, "woke" is almost a dial for games. Ravenloft can either be a game where all Vistani are shifty-eyed gypsies who steal chickens and babies at night, or they can all be noble Romani simply trying to live in peace with the land while helping where they can. (Personally, I like my Vistani as basically a lawful neutral/neutral evil group: they look out for other Vistani and keep their word to those they deem worthy, but have no problems screwing over others to help their own survive. A Darklord needs that village girl kidnapped for a forced marriage, and in return the Darklord will give the Vistani safe passage for a generation? Deal!)
If the criteria is just maximum edgelord, I think the undisputed king is still F.A.T.A.L.. I'll spare you the details and just say don't google it at work. It's also famously one of the most dysfunctional and badly written games ever published. A close second might be MYFAROG, that being a game written by a self-avowed white nationalist. Don't get much edgier than that.
On the subject of edgy settings I'd actually recommend someone use, most of the big ones have already been mentioned. The only one I don't see is Carcosa for Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's a Lovecraftian science-fantasy setting with an emphasis on black magic rituals with some truly horrific requirements. Torturing a large number of people to death is among the tamer things you're asked to do to cast a spell in that game.
The wokest setting I've read in recent years has to be the most recent edition of Runequest. One of the only times I've ever just closed and abandoned a roleplaying book in disgust. I'm sure there's woker out there, but I don't seek out games I expect to be trash, so I haven't read them.
Why Mystara?
Mystara is kind of a patchwork, there wasn't a lot of coordination between the authors of the original Gazetteers so any single one isn't really representative. That said, GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos is literal, straight-up settler colonialism. It just doesn't attract the ire of the SJWs because it's fake Byzantians colonizing the fake Balkans and there's no way to make the straight white men the villain in it.
You guys don't pay attention to the indie storygame scene, which is a pity because for the love of St. Michael the archangel there are some absolute beauties in there. Tachyon Squadron and Coyote and Crow are so woke as to become self-parody.
Quote from: ForgottenF on January 30, 2024, 08:33:57 PM
If the criteria is just maximum edgelord, I think the undisputed king is still F.A.T.A.L.. I'll spare you the details and just say don't google it at work. It's also famously one of the most dysfunctional and badly written games ever published. A close second might be MYFAROG, that being a game written by a self-avowed white nationalist. Don't get much edgier than that.
On the subject of edgy settings I'd actually recommend someone use, most of the big ones have already been mentioned. The only one I don't see is Carcosa for Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's a Lovecraftian science-fantasy setting with an emphasis on black magic rituals with some truly horrific requirements. Torturing a large number of people to death is among the tamer things you're asked to do to cast a spell in that game.
The wokest setting I've read in recent years has to be the most recent edition of Runequest. One of the only times I've ever just closed and abandoned a roleplaying book in disgust. I'm sure there's woker out there, but I don't seek out games I expect to be trash, so I haven't read them.
Just how bad is the most recent RQ? Now I'm morbidly curious.