Quote from: silva;597382Well, one actually could call it trivial in the sense that its everywhere and everyone makes use of it (as much as anyone in pre-modern times made use of charms and spells for everyday concerns like luck, fertility, peace, sucess at work, etc. making it trivial for day-to-day life).

It's not trivial because it's all-encompassing and ever-present. It's entirely the opposite of what I have in mind (where people aren't capable of any magic).

Quote from: silva;597382About the duck-people, you will have amphibian and avian peoples too, no? Thats no different really. The point is that all non-human races are utterly alien to humanity (instead of humans with different morphology, as is the case with D&D settings).

By the way, nice descriptions there Kiero. I would play it in a instant.

You can have utterly alien without plain old silly.

Quote from: The Traveller;597385There's a surprising amount of multicultural influence to some of the earlier cycles in Irish myth and legend, for example the story of the Tuatha De Dannan was that they fled the country or were driven out, wandered the Middle East and much of Asia for a few generations learning sorcery and the arts of war, before returning to find their sacred homeland occupied by the Fir Bolg. By some translations their name means "people of the water" or "sea people".

In my wanderings I once happened to play some traditional Irish back country hey-fiddle-diddle for a group of gentleman which left them weeping into their drinks with nostalgia for their homeland; which, as it turned out, was somewhere to the west of the Nile Valley.

Anyway the long and the short of it is that when you go back that far the cultures can be almost completely alien to modern western sensibilities, so accusations of being close minded are meaningless. Yes, Irish myth has a dude with a cyborg arm hurling a meteorite through some guy who shoots lasers from his eye, and the holy grail was in fact the cauldron of life.

My point here was largely that these sorts of things aren't all that alien to fantasy, since they're sometimes drawn upon.

Quote from: The Traveller;597385Although I'm not sure exactly who would be accusing you of bigotry, or why...

As a genre, pulp fantasy can often be accused of being sexist, racist and macho. Those are the connotations I'm working against when trying to sell it to my own group.

Quote from: Anglachel;597433Kiero - Another setting that i totally forgot about is Early Dark. It's relatively new (Kickstarter in 2010, i think) and by a small company, so I think the chances that you have had it on your radar are slim. It has magic in it but the world is very pre medieval and mythic. Also, the only playable races are humans. IIRC, the authors (or at least one of them) have degrees in anthropology. Here's a link, if you are interested:
Early Dark

Now that is interesting, I hadn't heard of it before. Its about the closest of anything in print I've seen to what I had in mind, though I'm not clear from what I've read how pervasive magic(k) is.

It is unfortunately another one that has to feature a fallen age where some past peoples were better, but that's a small slight against it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;597436I was also working on a Bronze Age OD&D setting a couple years ago. I focused on Sumeria, Babylonian and Assyrian influences and avoided anything European or Greek especially since I already play Mazes & Minotaurs.

The campaign focused on the ascension of the first human God-King and his creation of a paradise in the afterlife. The "old faiths" were all animal worship and a demon infested wilderness where humans encountered could be more dangerous than any wild beast.

Sounds interesting, did it get much play?

Quote from: Thalaba;597445No, it really isn't - I've seen 10 or 15 people talk about their bronze age campaigns/settings since I started my own several years ago and started paying attention to such things. I'm not sure why this never translated into a published setting by someone - Age of Treason seems to come closest.

It is bizarre that we don't seem to have had something published that's catering to this particular niche. Well, beyond some little-known things like Early Dark upthread.

Quote from: Kiero;597378I'm leery of going too Western with influences, something more like the Mediterranean/Near East is where I'm drawing most heavily from. Helps to counter the charges of potential bigotry, and besides which I wouldn't invent my own world only to have exactly the same assumption that everyone is Caucasian that many published settings seem to settle on.

Got no problem with having some Irish-style barbarians in the spaces between places (after all in classical times Celts more generally were a successful and well-developed people), but not as the assumed central/dominant culture.

Yeah, I can see your desire to get away from the trad fantasy tropes might make too many Irish influences a no-no, as Celtic styles and themes have been a popular source for fantasy games in the past. Perhaps I read too much into your proposed use of 'The Fae'.

The Med and the Middle East have been occasionally been used by commercial games in the past, but not well, I think.

Remember this old thread from 6 years ago on the Big Purple?

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?269191-(a-Conan-inspired-setting)-Sumatragori-Redux

Some interesting ideas here, if overall I found it a bit overwriten for my taste.
(And too much in awe of Conan.)

Personally I prefer the more bare-bones approach suggested in Paul Elliott's Babel - sadly no longer available on the web - did you ever see it?

Quote from: Kiero;597455As a genre, pulp fantasy can often be accused of being sexist, racist and macho. Those are the connotations I'm working against when trying to sell it to my own group.

I didn't think there was much of a pulp fantasy genre. I've heard of high fantasy, low fantasy, dark fantasy, swords and sorcery, but all fantasy tends to be somewhat pulpy (as in two fisted action) by its very nature. Actual pulp from the 1920s-50s yeah, that was rotten with racism and misogyny.

Again, Sláine has neither that I can remember, although both that and the works of Jim Fitzpatrick play on a fairly earthy tone. If 'sexist' means 'having sex' your group might not enjoy the influence. With that said the characteristic picture of the spiky haired axeman belies what can be a quite nuanced storyline.

Quote from: The Traveller;597469I didn't think there was much of a pulp fantasy genre. I've heard of high fantasy, low fantasy, dark fantasy, swords and sorcery, but all fantasy tends to be somewhat pulpy (as in two fisted action) by its very nature. Actual pulp from the 1920s-50s yeah, that was rotten with racism and misogyny.

I think it's accurate to call the sword and sorcery of Howard, Smith, and others who were writing their fantasy stories during the 1920s-50s "pulp fantasy", especially since much of it it was actually published in pulps.  I would consider it another label for what's more commonly called "sword and sorcery" by those who make a distinction between different genres of fantasy.

This is an off topic post to simply thank Kiero for starting this thread. This is the sort of thing we should do more of here - be creative and share ideas. The Traveller started a similar ideas thread a while back that died early, which I though was a shame.

I think Kiero's request to keep system discussion out of it helped. Once people raise the topic of systems then a thread tends to become all about mechanics. Mind you, I suppose that floats a lot of people's boats.

Back on topic - Kiero, how do you see the question of the Gods?

Are they real and active, or are they 'silent' like in a lot of the old S&S stories. Do priests have access to supernatural power from their God, or is religion more a matter of power structures and political clout?

My preference is that the Gods no longer manifest themselves in the world. If a priest has mojo, then it means they are a closet mage and are simply pretending their power comes from the Gods. I suppose in your 'no humans have magic' set up, that would mean that the priest or priestess is a Changeling.

Quote from: The Traveller;597385Yes, Irish myth has a dude with a cyborg arm hurling a meteorite through some guy who shoots lasers from his eye, and the holy grail was in fact the cauldron of life.

Hang on a sec. Guy with the cyborg arm is Nuada of the Silver Hand, sure. But the laser eye guy must be Balor of the Evil Eye, and he was killed by Lugh, not Nuada.

Quote from: Premier;597564Hang on a sec. Guy with the cyborg arm is Nuada of the Silver Hand, sure. But the laser eye guy must be Balor of the Evil Eye, and he was killed by Lugh, not Nuada.

I haven't read it in many years to be honest. The salient takeaway is that lasers, cyborgs, and meteorites make for a kickass mythology.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;597464Yeah, I can see your desire to get away from the trad fantasy tropes might make too many Irish influences a no-no, as Celtic styles and themes have been a popular source for fantasy games in the past. Perhaps I read too much into your proposed use of 'The Fae'.

The Med and the Middle East have been occasionally been used by commercial games in the past, but not well, I think.

I'm talking more like Exalted-style Hindu-inspired emotion-vampires, rather than the potentially Disney-esque Irish-style Fae.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;597466Remember this old thread from 6 years ago on the Big Purple?

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?269191-(a-Conan-inspired-setting)-Sumatragori-Redux

Some interesting ideas here, if overall I found it a bit overwriten for my taste.
(And too much in awe of Conan.)

Personally I prefer the more bare-bones approach suggested in Paul Elliott's Babel - sadly no longer available on the web - did you ever see it?

I'll check it out later when my suspension ends this evening.

As an aside, Paul Elliott wrote one of my favourite historical games, Warlords of Alexander. I've got no use for BRP, but turning the history into a (concise) gameable format is invaluable.

Quote from: John Morrow;597500I think it's accurate to call the sword and sorcery of Howard, Smith, and others who were writing their fantasy stories during the 1920s-50s "pulp fantasy", especially since much of it it was actually published in pulps.  I would consider it another label for what's more commonly called "sword and sorcery" by those who make a distinction between different genres of fantasy.

This, pulp fantasy is a bit more specific a term than the often useless "sword and sorcery" tag. Not least because in too many people's minds, the latter applies to D&D, even though I've never seen any published D&D setting that remotely fits the tropes of the genre.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;597560This is an off topic post to simply thank Kiero for starting this thread. This is the sort of thing we should do more of here - be creative and share ideas. The Traveller started a similar ideas thread a while back that died early, which I though was a shame.

I think Kiero's request to keep system discussion out of it helped. Once people raise the topic of systems then a thread tends to become all about mechanics. Mind you, I suppose that floats a lot of people's boats.

Scars of a long time posting on fora tell me if you excise the system discussion you get a smaller, but better-focused thread. Especially if you're not actually after system recommendations anyway.

I've lost track of the number of threads that get derailed with an avalanche of empty, and often inappropriate "play my favourite game" entreaties.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;597561Back on topic - Kiero, how do you see the question of the Gods?

Are they real and active, or are they 'silent' like in a lot of the old S&S stories. Do priests have access to supernatural power from their God, or is religion more a matter of power structures and political clout?

My preference is that the Gods no longer manifest themselves in the world. If a priest has mojo, then it means they are a closet mage and are simply pretending their power comes from the Gods. I suppose in your 'no humans have magic' set up, that would mean that the priest or priestess is a Changeling.

Silent gods; they do nothing, do not respond to prayers, give no evidence whatsoever that they are out there. Not that it stops people worshipping gods, mind, they just don't do anything. Religion is a purely political and mundane force.

Anyone using magic is either a sorceror or a changeling - neither of them good.

Here's a bit of a diversion, but in keeping with the core theme of pulp fantasy - Exalted's pre-history. I know I'm not the only person who generally muses that Exalted's setting, Creation, is kind of interesting, but the whole thing is spoiled by the Exalted themselves.

Well in the Time of Glory, before the Primordial War and Exalted were even thought of, just such a setting existed. Humanity is ruled over by the Dragon Kings, humanoid dinosaurs with superpowers (and perfect reincarnation) who were given their stewardship by the gods. They worshipped the sun with great temples and Aztec-style sacrifices of humans.

I'm imagining this gradual slide towards the Primordial War, where the gods and elementals are chafing at their bonds and making moves towards the war. That includes sending their half-divine children as agents of chaos, sowing dischord and encouraging the human population to rebel, along with acting as emissaries recruiting others to the cause.

Basically it's an excuse to play and focus on all the stuff that is usually all but ignored - Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk, Heroic and Enlightened Mortals, God-Blooded, spirits and Fae. There's no demons or unquiet dead, since neither of those things exist yet.

It lacks all the accretion of magitech and bizarre transhumanism that developed over the line, since none of that stuff exists yet. There's a bit more focus of themes, rather than seven different types of super-people each thinking the world is run for their benefit.

Quote from: silva;597361Except for the Magic part, you just described Glorantha.

No, he hasn't. For starters, magic is a huge part of Glorantha. Second, there are ample monsters and demihumans in Glorantha.

I hate when people do that shit.

RPGPundit

Pundit, what part of "except for the Magic part" you didnt understand ?


No really. What Kiero described in the OP is just exactly like Glorantha, except for the Magic part. Everything else is there - the tribal (and clan) level social organization, the empires and city-states, the "barren wild peoples", the all-bronze weaponry, the skirmish level conflicts (with sandals & slings & spears instead of longbows & swords & full-plates), the slavery, the alien and hostile non-playable non-humans, even the "outsiders" are there! (only its Chaos instead of the Fae )

The part where the particulars of magic are such a big part of Glorantha (the game is even named after magic, RUNEquest), that if you say "something is just like glorantha only without magic" is like saying "something is not really like glorantha at all".

All the things you pointed out aren't Glorantha, they're just standard bronze age tropes. And you left out the part that Glorantha has elves, dwarves, duck people, etc., when the OP explicitly pointed out his setting would be HUMANS only (plus the outsiders).

RPGPundit

QuoteThe part where the particulars of magic are such a big part of Glorantha (the game is even named after magic, RUNEquest), that if you say "something is just like glorantha only without magic" is like saying "something is not really like glorantha at all".

I agree. But then I didnt imply that he could simply use Glorantha for his game. I just wanted to make an observation on the similarities.

Also, Glorantha´s Uz, Aldryami and Mostali are non-playable and utterly aliens to humanity (at least thats the default assumption). And the OP cites reptilian, avian and amphibious races too, see:

Quote from: KieroI haven't given them a lot of thought yet, but any non-human sapients will likely be reptilian, and maybe include amphibian or avian types too. They are all violently opposed to humanity.

But please, forget my initial comment and let this offtopic slide into obscurity, since its adding nothing to the (nice) thread Kiero created.