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Call up demons, traditional style

Started by Svartalf, June 23, 2006, 10:51:43 AM

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Svartalf

This is a question I wonder about regularly.

How do you call up demons (or any other extra planar entities for that matter) in D&D? After all, some prestige classes demand that you have had some kind of non violent interaction with such beings, and they are too common a plot device for means to call them up not to exist.
Let's review what I know of :
-Summon monster I-IX has some use, but it does not include some of the most interesting monsters (no succubus with that for instance), and the limited duration may not be long enough for you to have enough interaction with your sumoned critter.

-Gate is excellent... only problem is that you don't get it until you're really high level... plus using it in calling mode has that pesky XP cost.

-Planar ally could be interesting ... but why in heck is it reserved for clerics?

-planar binding looks like the closest version, and as a lvl 6 spell, it's about the closest to what I am looking for... But it's frelling limited... the 5th lvl version can get you quasits, dretches, or succubi, the classic version, a lvl6 adds stuff up to glabrezu levlel... above that, you'll have to use the lvl 8 spell, and that's late to wait... plus, none of that stuff will call balor level beings (whether you're up to dealing with those should be a matter of your being wise, not of your spells being unable to call them)... of course, planar binding is terribly iffy magic, those outsiders have good will saving throws to make it fail from the outset... as for the creature escaping the restraining circle, those are the chances you take.

So, what other methods do you know of to call creatures from beyond? if they are from rulebooks or supplements, which? or do you have your own home summoning system? I'd rather those were not dependant on possession of powerful or ultra rare items... expensive components are OK, having to posess a unique or nearly so artefact is too restrictive.
 BTW, I'm specifically thinking about methods useable by arcane spell casters, and possibly foolish non spell casters.
 

Nicephorus

Haven't dealt with it recently, have winged it in the past.

A way that would capture quite a bit of historical flavor is to use the incantation rules.  A book contains a complicated procedure that anyone can cast if they take the time to learn it and gather the correct materials.

rules for incantations:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm

Svartalf

Incantations? that's from Unearthed Arcana isn't it?
(I just feel weird saying that title ...UA has been on my shelves for some 20 years, but this 3ed incarnation, I don't know at all)
 

Xavier Lang

I would suggest making it up for your group.

Decide if someone must be a spellcaster or if the rituals needed can be done by anyone.

Make a rough list of likes and dislikes of your general demonic groups you want to mess with.

Come up with a list of do's and don't for the demons.  Things they can't do, for example, make someone fall in love.  Charm spell is not love.

Decide what sort of things the demon will say it wants in payment
Decide what sort of things the demon actually wants.

Decide if there is a noticable taint from dealing with them.  Can spellcasters and or normal people/animals tell if you have been trafficing with demons.

etc...
 

Roger

There's a great method which requires no rules modification:

Outsource it.  Find some guy who already knows how to Gate (or whatever) in demons, and ask him to do it for you.

Of course, he'll probably want some payment.  And if he's the kind of guy who has regular truck with demons, it's probably not going to be gold.

Now the character is indebted to at least two parties, and that's got to be the start of something interesting.


Cheers,
Roger
 

Janos

One of the simplest ways I found was to find the name of a powerful fiend and invite him.  It's easy to believe that they can hear their name, and when he arrives, you negotiate much like a planar binding spell.  Or a Transdimensional Sending works too.
 

Svartalf

Quote from: RogerThere's a great method which requires no rules modification:

Outsource it.  Find some guy who already knows how to Gate (or whatever) in demons, and ask him to do it for you.

Of course, he'll probably want some payment.  And if he's the kind of guy who has regular truck with demons, it's probably not going to be gold.

Now the character is indebted to at least two parties, and that's got to be the start of something interesting.


Cheers,
Roger

I've thought of this...
To be short : a caster of the level that can cast Gate Just won't be available. NPCs who are personally that powerful have their own agenda, and can't be bothered to cast spells for a bunch of adventurers... Those few who are on the side of their sponsors just won't have any truck with demons ... and honestly, the party had better not ask for the services of a planetar... Celestial influence in the lower planes does tend to be a beacon for trouble... which they are going to have in plenty without summoning for more.

Also, given that those spells either have an XP cost (Gate), or are quite dangerous to use (planar binding), if the players do search till they find a mercenary of sufficient power, they are going to be beggared by the price. This is powerful magic, and not the easy, dangerless kind... the price scales in the basic books won't be representative of the price for such stuff...

And honestly... I'm not sure I'm quite cruel enough to put the kind of guy who would be willing to tinker with fiends to help them in their endeavour in their way... at least not when they are not powerful enough to stand a chance of surviving the crossfire of being pawns in fiendish internecine wars...

BTW. My basic idea will have the players opposing certain demonic powers, and needing to go beard them in the lower planes (actually, I intend most of the action to happen in Tarterus rather than the abyss, because I intend to make use of demodands, not to mention a cast of daemons (yugoloth for you youngsters). They will need the help of a fiend or two, to serve as guide (ideally, one demon of decent power and intelligence, maybe a vrock, hezrou or babau... they don't want a manipulator like a glabrezu, succubus or nalfeshnee... though of course those might be more easily available  to smoothe the way with the demonic factions, and a charonadaemon/marraenloth to help with transportation... if they donh't use the styx, the way will be longer and more dangerous. They will already be caught up between several fiendish factions... it might cause really unhappy happenstances if they did manage to be used as expendable pawns by some of those factions...
 

ColonelHardisson

Quote from: SvartalfIncantations? that's from Unearthed Arcana isn't it?
(I just feel weird saying that title ...UA has been on my shelves for some 20 years, but this 3ed incarnation, I don't know at all)

It's a fantastic book, full of great ways to customize your campaign to exactly your taste. In my opinion, it's the best WotC book besides the core books.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

Dacke

Quote from: Svartalf-Planar ally could be interesting ... but why in heck is it reserved for clerics?
Planar ally is all about asking your god "Hey, I could use some help down here. Mind sending someone?" You don't have any control over what's going to appear, but it's pretty risk-free since you're working for the same god.

Planar binding is the traditional demon-summoning, complete with summoning circle, bargaining for favors, and a rather high amount of risk.

As for their HD limitations, one of the "problems" with D&D summoning and calling is that you generally can't procure the services of something that's more powerful than you. That's a good thing for game balance (since the thing conjured is essentially considered a part of your own abilities), but it does go against traditional "demonologist" flavor.

One additional option is the truename binding spells from Tome of Magic, that operate on CR rather than HD. However, using these require a rather hefty skill check (17+2*CR), and probably a feat spent on making Truespeech a class skill. There is also the Fiendbinder prestige class from the same book.
 

Svartalf

Truename binding.... So I'll have to finish that book. the first two parts (pact and shadow magic) had disappointed me so thoroughly that I never really got into truename magic... that and the fact that the early parts of the section were not an easy read. But if it gives interesting methods for outsider calling, it might be worthwhile.

I still notice that truename based magic seems to be rather tangly and difficult to apply, whatever game you find it in.
 

Dacke

IMO, truename magic is the weakest part of Tome of Magic, but that's mainly because of mathematics. The DC for Truename use is 15+2*CR of what you're using it on, which means that the DC goes up roughly twice as fast as your skill.