I don't play Dungeons & Dragons - I have, but I don't tend to. Since I'm usually the one running the games I tend to run a great variety. However, I was reading a newly purchased pdf of the Rules Cyclopedia, and it peaked my interest. I am a "less is more" player and GM. This game seemed to solve many of the concerns I had about playing and running other editions Dungeons & Dragons (3rd, Pathfinder, and to a lesser extent 1st edition) - mainly that when there's so much to keep track of about your character, it makes me feel like there are fewer options, not more.
What are your experiences with this iteration - what are its strengths over other editions? What can I expect should I attempt to run it?
//Panjumanju
Pros: It's fun
What else is there?
You might like it. It's fairly simple and it's all in one book.
RC is a really great reference for old hat lovers of the BECMI sequence, but as an entry point into that version of D&D it is a slog at best and a nightmare at worst.
I recommend instead just getting the Basic and Expert PDFs from DTRPG, and start from there. You'll get a much more clearly written and frictionless introduction to the game, and if you later want to get RC so you can have all the high level rules and extra bits in one single tome, go for it once you know you like the core game and want those extra bits.
It's not a bad choice. (I don't like the art, but that's personal taste.) I'd advise ignoring the optional rules for "general skills" and "weapons mastery" (again, a personal taste thing, but I think those tacked-on subsystems change the way the game works in ways I dislike).
1) Solid iteration of D&D Rules. It does what D&D does and does it well.
2) It has rules for Kingdoms/Hiring People/Running Environments beyond dungeon crawling.
3) Fairly significant bestiary
4) Weapons far more balanced against one another than most D&D.
5) Spells fairly well balanced.
6) Skill System/Weapon Mastery rules that work, and work well. Even if you chose to not use them it works better IMO than any other system.
Drawbacks:
1) Not enough Mystara Setting, you'll have to get supplements or something else for a world.
2) Mages are not balanced well against other classes, there are simple fixes for that. (The penalties for Magic Users are more significant than their benefits, especially with their well balanced spells.)*
3) Its a big book takes a lot of reading.
*I've got a PDF that details point building each class to compare them, I'm not sure where it is at the moment. My fixes were to allow spellcasting to be done while moving as long as its not fast movement, and allowing an AC bonus from Int.
It is a good "whole game in one book", but FOR ME, the free retroclones like Swords & Wizardry or Labyrinth Lord (or even a retrowhatever like Mazes & Minotaurs) does a better job than the RC.
BTW, if you like fantasy and like rules light, but want something different than D&D, check out Mazes & Minotaurs
http://storygame.free.fr/MAZES.htm
The RC is great in that it has all of the rules you'll ever need in a single book. The optional systems (skills, weapon mastery, etc.) are generally solid, and easily ignored if you don't want to use them.
The downsides (IMO):
(a) The default assumption that all characters will progress from level 1 to 36 (or non-humans through various 'attack ranks') is not one that I favour (I prefer a level range of 1 to around 12-15)
(b) The art (not horrible, but just not that great)
(c) Thieves' abilities (which are horrible to begin with) progress far too slowly
I personally prefer (slightly) the B/X D&D rules (Molvday/Cook version), as the level range (1-14) and art (Otus, Dee) are more to my taste. But I would have no hesitation using the RC.
Also, I think that if you're going to use all the options in the RC (skills, weapon mastery, etc.), the overall game will not be much 'lighter' overall in terms of rules than (core) AD&D. So if you want a 'rules light' version of D&D, use the options in the RC with caution.
Quote from: Panjumanju;678443What are your experiences with this iteration - what are its strengths over other editions? What can I expect should I attempt to run it?
The best thing I can say to sell Rules Cyclopedia is that it is almost as good as B/X D&D and BECMI D&D
Quote from: J Arcane;678529I recommend instead just getting the Basic and Expert PDFs from DTRPG, and start from there.
What are the differences between Basic and Expert?
(And am I right to assume "B/X" stands for "Basic and Expert"?)
//Panjumanju
Quote from: Panjumanju;678618What are the differences between Basic and Expert?
(And am I right to assume "B/X" stands for "Basic and Expert"?)
Basic is levels 1-3. Expert is levels 4-14. Together they give you a complete RPG in 128 pages.
BECMI started in a similar pattern with Companion being levels 15-25, Master 26-36, and Immortals >36. B/X is better written IMO and the 1-14 range is both better (as Thieves Skills increase faster and racial limits make more sense) and more accurately reflects most D&D games.
Quote from: Silverlion;678572*I've got a PDF that details point building each class to compare them, I'm not sure where it is at the moment. My fixes were to allow spellcasting to be done while moving as long as its not fast movement, and allowing an AC bonus from Int.
I believe this is what you are thinking of. I had a AD&D version from years ago until I found this. Perfect Class at breeyark.org (http://breeyark.org/node/112)
If you're okay with race-as-class, it sounds like the Rules Cyclopedia would be right up your alley.
In my experience, M-Us were definitely not disadvantaged. On the contrary, I'd say that at higher levels, unless you are using weapon mastery, they would vastly outshine fighters.
Quote from: RPGPundit;679276In my experience, M-Us were definitely not disadvantaged. On the contrary, I'd say that at higher levels, unless you are using weapon mastery, they would vastly outshine fighters.
Unless you're confident that your campaign will extend beyond level 10, the Elf class is clearly superior to the M-U. And if you're using the
Alfheim supplement, then Elves are probably better than M-Us even beyond that.
But yeah, relative to all other classes, once you get to higher levels (10+) the M-U will start to dominate (just as it does in AD&D). And that's a good thing, IMO.
Quote from: RPGPundit;679276In my experience, M-Us were definitely not disadvantaged.
Quote from: Akrasia;679549...the Elf class is clearly superior to the M-U. And if you're using the Alfheim supplement, then Elves are probably better than M-Us even beyond that.
I'm assuming "magic-user"?
Or are we talking about the Mystic (that is not a Monk...or is the Monk a Mystic in all but name?)
//Panjumanju
Quote from: Panjumanju;679565I'm assuming "magic-user"?
Or are we talking about the Mystic (that is not a Monk...or is the Monk a Mystic in all but name?)
//Panjumanju
Yeah, magic-user.
Quote from: Akrasia;679549Unless you're confident that your campaign will extend beyond level 10, the Elf class is clearly superior to the M-U. And if you're using the Alfheim supplement, then Elves are probably better than M-Us even beyond that.
But yeah, relative to all other classes, once you get to higher levels (10+) the M-U will start to dominate (just as it does in AD&D). And that's a good thing, IMO.
That is a major plus of the B/X approach: Elves end up being reasonably balanced relative to Magic Users by the end.
I also like the higher percentages on thief skills, which make them more effective at the levels typically seen in play.
I'm always confident my campaigns will get to high level.
Quote from: Akrasia;679549Unless you're confident that your campaign will extend beyond level 10, the Elf class is clearly superior to the M-U. And if you're using the Alfheim supplement, then Elves are probably better than M-Us even beyond that.
But yeah, relative to all other classes, once you get to higher levels (10+) the M-U will start to dominate (just as it does in AD&D). And that's a good thing, IMO.
Elves level up at a glacial rate, though, wich is a serious weakness of the class.
If anyone is interested, here's a copy of the Cyclopedia on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dungeons-Dragons-Game-Rules-Cyclopedia-1071-Hard-Cover/141048369182
Quote from: The Ent;680077Elves level up at a glacial rate, though, wich is a serious weakness of the class.
Assuming everyone is gaining xp at the same rate, an elf can generally expect to be 2-3 levels behind everyone else, except for the magic users (who will probably only have a single level on them).
Quote from: robiswrong;686749Assuming everyone is gaining xp at the same rate, an elf can generally expect to be 2-3 levels behind everyone else, except for the magic users (who will probably only have a single level on them).
Yeah. And thieves would be a bit ahead.
OTOH that's working as intended (what with elves being really powerful).
Quote from: Panjumanju;678618What are the differences between Basic and Expert?
(And am I right to assume "B/X" stands for "Basic and Expert"?)
//Panjumanju
You have to be a little bit careful: B/X refers to 'Moldvay Basic', which just had a Basic and an Expert set. It predates the Rules Cyclopedia.
The Rules Cyclopedia is basically a condensed version of the BECMI sets (Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortal), of which the Basic iteration is the famous "red box".
Getting your hands on each of the separate sets from Basic through to Immortal is better than the RC in that they are better written and have much more tools for a DM (although the Immortal set is really a luxury - I've certainly never tried to run it). But the RC, I think, is the best D&D book you can buy as it has everything you need in one place.
Quote from: noisms;686991Getting your hands on each of the separate sets from Basic through to Immortal is better than the RC in that they are better written and have much more tools for a DM
Also way nicer art :)
(Yeah I know mileages vary and it's not like the RC art is all bad of course. Love the RC thief and druid.)
BTW one could always get the RC/BECMI retroclone,
Dark Dungeons, wich is very faithful (allthough that one includes Weapon Mastery in the monster descriptions wich might not be everyone's cuppa; it does include Immortal rules, wich RC doesn't).
Quote from: The Ent;686995Also way nicer art :)
(Yeah I know mileages vary and it's not like the RC art is all bad of course. Love the RC thief and druid.)
BTW one could always get the RC/BECMI retroclone, Dark Dungeons, wich is very faithful (allthough that one includes Weapon Mastery in the monster descriptions wich might not be everyone's cuppa; it does include Immortal rules, wich RC doesn't).
Oh yeah, I forgot the Immortal rules aren't in there.
The Immortal rules as they stand are damn near unusable.
RPGPundit
Quote from: noisms;687003Oh yeah, I forgot the Immortal rules aren't in there.
No great loss.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;687401No great loss.
I've honestly never even bothered reading through them. Aren't they essentially a super hero game by the back door?
I was in my FLGS yesterday and saw a used but still quite good condition copy of the Rules Cyclopedia. Because I've heard so many good things about it online, I was tempted to pick it up.
Until I saw the price tag of $95.:jaw-dropping:
Is the store owner on crack, or is there a genuine possibility that someone will pay that amount?
BTW, what I got instead was Eternal Lies, maybe I'll drop into the EL thread with a report when I'm done reading through it.
Quote from: Dimitrios;687455I was in my FLGS yesterday and saw a used but still quite good condition copy of the Rules Cyclopedia. Because I've heard so many good things about it online, I was tempted to pick it up.
Until I saw the price tag of $95.:jaw-dropping:
Is the store owner on crack, or is there a genuine possibility that someone will pay that amount?
BTW, what I got instead was Eternal Lies, maybe I'll drop into the EL thread with a report when I'm done reading through it.
I've seen that level of price for it before. It's because it's quite rare. Just get the PDF and print it on your work computer. I can neither confirm nor deny that's what I do with a lot of game book purchases. ;)
Wizards lost a big opportunity by not doing a reprint of RC. One book, low investment in comparison with other reprints, and guaranteed positive buzz on the web etc.
I wonder why they aren't reprinting the RC? I recall a poll asking which book should get reprinted next and thought that the RC was the clear winner.
Quote from: RunningLaser;687470I wonder why they aren't reprinting the RC? I recall a poll asking which book should get reprinted next and thought that the RC was the clear winner.
Because it's the only edition which is one book. Why sell a version that is self-contained when you could get the customer to buy the other editions of three books each?
I Wonder why they haven't reprinted any of the Basic stuff. It's just as classic as AD&D and would probably sell just as well. If the boxed set thing is the issue they could print book versions. And BECMI at least has enough material to be put into more than one book surely?
Quote from: Benoist;687466Wizards lost a big opportunity by not doing a reprint of RC. One book, low investment in comparison with other reprints, and guaranteed positive buzz on the web etc.
Exactly.
But maybe a one-book version of D&D would have been too big a hassle for Next. (By being a role model for a one book treatment of D&D instead of the usual supplement treadmill.)
Also, I hoped for more reprint collections of classic modules...
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;687695Exactly.
But maybe a one-book version of D&D would have been too big a hassle for Next. (By being a role model for a one book treatment of D&D instead of the usual supplement treadmill.)
Also, I hoped for more reprint collections of classic modules...
Or they know 90% of people interested in RC already have print versions.
I can't see that stopping most of them (us) from purchasing a premium reprint. I'm a bit baffled by the fact that they reprinted nothing from the basic line.
Quote from: Bobloblah;687890I can't see that stopping most of them (us) from purchasing a premium reprint. I'm a bit baffled by the fact that they reprinted nothing from the basic line.
While I wouldn't buy the box with OD&D stuff for the price they are charging, I would consider a slipcase with the B/X/C/M modules. Even though I have most in good condition.
Quote from: Bobloblah;687890I can't see that stopping most of them (us) from purchasing a premium reprint.
I can be a sucker for stuff like that but when I held the AD&D1 reprints in my hands (in a shop) I asked myself if I really, really needed the same content a fifth time.
- Sutherland cover (I had to buy this at a Gen Con to have it signed by EGG; but I wanted a copy of that version anyway because my first DM was using that - nostalgia and all that)
- Easley cover (the copy that saw excessive use)
- German PHB (for laughs)
- OSRIC (for ... I don't know. I don't think I'll ever return to AD&D)
So I left them on the shelf.
I have no idea whether I would have bought an RC reprint.
If it had the iconic BECMI artwork (Aleena, Bargle, etc.) - no doubt!
But the original RC...?
QuoteI'm a bit baffled by the fact that they reprinted nothing from the basic line.
Yes. Is that an indication on the direction they'll take with Next? Or what WotC
thinks Next will be?
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;688055I can be a sucker for stuff like that but when I held the AD&D1 reprints in my hands (in a shop) I asked myself if I really, really needed the same content a fifth time.
The fact that people even have 3, 4, and 5 copies of these books suggests to me that they just might be willing to purchase another.
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;688055Yes. Is that an indication on the direction they'll take with Next? Or what WotC thinks Next will be?
Now
this is an interesting question...
Quote from: Benoist;687466Wizards lost a big opportunity by not doing a reprint of RC. One book, low investment in comparison with other reprints, and guaranteed positive buzz on the web etc.
At least it's another rabbit they could pull out of the hat for some quick cash at any time they need it in the next couple of decades.
I think just about everyone who loves RC would get another copy just to have a new one to stop wearing down their old copy. I know mine is extremely worn down.
I loaned my original copy to a friend over 20 years ago and haven't seen it since.
Picked up a copy in near pristine shape at a FLGS swap meet for $15.00 last year. :)
Quote from: Exploderwizard;689776I loaned my original copy to a friend over 20 years ago and haven't seen it since.
Picked up a copy in near pristine shape at a FLGS swap meet for $15.00 last year. :)
That was lucky!