I played a dozen or so sittings of the WEG Star Wars (Fifth Edition I think? I dunno) under a deranged game master a while back and certifiably hated it. Then I was at his house recently and read the book and realized that the system is great and that he was just a dink.
Anyway, I see promise in the system. Simple, elegant, action-oriented. I see that WEG has a universal type system out, albiet with three distinct books for genre separation (read: profit reaping).
Anyone playing it? Anyone have any sites or experiences with it? Which genre books are a must-have?
There is no promise, there is no good, there is nothing but crap to the system. I utterly loathe the d6 system they used for Star Wars, it was headache inducing.
Your experience with that DM will not change with a better one. :(
I, on the other hand, really like the D6 system. I'm only familiar with it in its Star Wars incarnation though, so I can't really help you with other versions.
D6 is great at low levels soon as you start to power up the die roll mechanic of adding up d6's is just irritating. If you want to use a similar feel mechanic but is a lot faster and works a hell of a lot better I'd suggest checking out Silcore. It's a better system overall.
I really like it as well. In fact, it's my system of choice, too bad it's a little harder to find players.
If you've played SW, you know the gist of the system, but I'll describe it again for those who may not know. You have the usual breakdown into Abilities (natural talent) and Skills (learned/trained talents). Each Ability has a number of skills tied to it. For example, in the new version you have Coordination ability which governs skills like Marksmanship, Lock Picking, etc.
Instead of a single numeric score, Abilities and Skills have a die code, which is a number of D6s you roll for task resolution. For example, your die code in Coordination may be 3D, which means you roll 3D6 when attempting a Coordination-related task. Skills start at the same die code as their controlling ability, but you have skill dice you can assign to raise them beyond that. Your Coordination die code may be 3D, but you might assign 1 skill die to raise your Marksmanship skill, so when you used Marksmanship you would roll 4D6 instead of 3D6.
As far as combat, weapon and armor ratings are given in a similar format. A rifle with a damage rating of 3D means you roll 3D6 when figuring damage. Armor with a rating of 2D means you roll 2D6 to figure out how much damage your armor stops. There are two damage systems to choose from, a Wound tracking system and a Hit Point system (called Body Points).
I think it's simple and elegant, though possibly a little lacking in flavor, but that can be compensated for with good roleplaying. It works best for fast-paced cinematic games. And it's easy to learn, you can pick it up in about 5 minutes (and that includes character creation).
BTW, WEGs Star Wars only had 3 editions (2.5 actually). First edition had the Star Wars gang on the cover with Luke Skywalker in the front on a black background. Second edition had a blue cover with Darth Vader on the cover, I believe. Second edition revised had a black cover with the Millenium Falcon on it. Second Edition is widely considered the least desirable of the three, but the Revised edition cleaned up a lot of its problems.
Quote from: kryystD6 is great at low levels soon as you start to power up the die roll mechanic of adding up d6's is just irritating. If you want to use a similar feel mechanic but is a lot faster and works a hell of a lot better I'd suggest checking out Silcore. It's a better system overall.
Well, I've never had a problem adding single digit numbers together in my head, but I've also found that advancement is fairly slow compared to other games unless your GM is handing out Character Points (the equivalent of XP) like candy.
Quote from: TechnomancerWell, I've never had a problem adding single digit numbers together in my head, but I've also found that advancement is fairly slow compared to other games unless your GM is handing out Character Points (the equivalent of XP) like candy.
Good for you. It's not the difficulty of adding up 3d6 - it's higher levels when you get to add up 8d6. I can do the math I just don't want to. It's not as fast or as elegant as counting successes or taking a high die and adding 1 to it for each additional 6. Plus the huge randomness makes rolling 8d6 start to get pointless.
It's alright. But, at high levels, and with mods for various things, it can be lots of dice. Adding up 10+ dice and subtracting a bunch more dice gets tedious when you're doing it for every action.
For Star Wars, it's ok as an SF game but I think of the movie as heroic fantasy in space. I'm not a D20 for everything gamer, but I think it's a reasonable choice for Star Wars style space opera.
Quote from: kryystGood for you. It's not the difficulty of adding up 3d6 - it's higher levels when you get to add up 8d6. I can do the math I just don't want to. It's not as fast or as elegant as counting successes or taking a high die and adding 1 to it for each additional 6. Plus the huge randomness makes rolling 8d6 start to get pointless.
True. I should mention that the new books have a way around that. When you get to the point where you are rolling larger dice pools, there is a chart in the back that has you roll just a few dice and add the result to a static number (the average of the rest of the dice, I guess). So if you had to roll 10D, you might actually only roll 3D and add 24 (the average roll of 7D6) to the total. That might speed things up some.
I haven't had a chance to play the new version of D6 but I do own the books. It seems to me that the new d6 is a bit more simple than I remember SW d6 being.
One of the best things about d6 is that is flexible enough to use for any type of game. It's not quite as much of a tool box game as FUDGE is but it is much easier to tinker with and keep balanced than d20.
I've run Godsend Agenda D6 (and Star Wars D6 in ages past), Godsend Agenda uses a version of D6 Adventure (but is complete) and while it has some hefty die pools possible (15+) there is a quick little "rapid resolution" style chart to speed up die rolling of lots of dice in it, and I'm pretty sure that's in the other D6 books as well.
I find 10d6-15d6 or so adding faster than adding up a string of modifiers in othr games (+3-1+5 etc..) simply because of the ability to group likes in a physical manner. Its not really any slower than D20/D&D3 and its faster than a lot of games in terms of checks (most characters won't have that many dice, except the superheroes..)
I'm fond of D6 because of its simplicity in play, however, the current incarnations of D6 are not the simplest versions. They've added a lot of details (combat most notably) that some people seem to want hard coded into the rules. Modifiers and details that early Star Wars and the "D6" under original WEG didn't have. Those things can be ignored or discarded, but its not as simple as it once was.
I still think its a good game system, flexible, fast, and easily playable. There are a few I'd recommend over it these days but only marginally.
Quote from: CleanCutRogueAnyone have any sites or experiences with it?
No, sir. I don't like it.
Take a look at Alderac's d10 Roll and Keep system (L5R, 7th Sea)... Similar system, but much better.
Quote from: kryystGood for you. It's not the difficulty of adding up 3d6 - it's higher levels when you get to add up 8d6.
Just collect the dice in piles that add up to 5 or 10. That makes it a lot faster.
I've never been big on dice pool games. It's not a matter of too many dice to roll and add up, but a problem of that not be a very great way to play in my opinion. Rolling a die and adding in any modifiers to beat a static number is the way to go for me. It's just easier than sorting and adding up 8 to 12 d6's.
Needless to say, I was never a fan of the D6 system. I played it when WEG had the SW liscence, but not since then. There are better systems out there.
hm... I've been quietly listening and now I have some questions to ask, and this will help me decide whether to buy it or not.
1) the wound resolution system - is it simple (like the damage boxes of WOD), numerically depletive (like hitpoints in d20), or something else? It was mentioned in your post (Technomancer) that there are two systems.
2) is it common to roll so many dice? How common? I'm fine tossing 3-5 dice for most actions (we do that in FUDGE, Gurps, etc. anyway). Is rolling 15 dice something that a player gets to do once in a great while (smiling the whole time he gathers them) or is it something that happens multiple times per sesson - making it not special and therefore just tedious?
3) in SW (the one we played had Darth Vader on the cover btw) they had Force Points. I'm generally not a fan of meta mechanics like fate points, luck points, etc. But Force Points were intrinsic to the setting and therefore the mechanics - not meta mechanics. Is there something in the new rules for this or is this eiliminated for the sake of realism? Is it tied to behavior or roleplaying or alignment/allegience/etc.?
4) did WEG get on the bandwagon with Advantages/Merits and Disadvantages/Flaws? It seems to be a common mechanic most games have nowadays.
Quote from: CleanCutRogue1) the wound resolution system - is it simple (like the damage boxes of WOD), numerically depletive (like hitpoints in d20), or something else? It was mentioned in your post (Technomancer) that there are two systems.
Seems to be two systems Body points or a wound table system you can use either one or a hybrid of the two.
Quote2) is it common to roll so many dice? How common? I'm fine tossing 3-5 dice for most actions (we do that in FUDGE, Gurps, etc. anyway). Is rolling 15 dice something that a player gets to do once in a great while (smiling the whole time he gathers them) or is it something that happens multiple times per sesson - making it not special and therefore just tedious?
My experience is 3-4 is most common with 5-6 dice being possible and larger pools with force points being occasionally used (Star Wars), in the Godsend Agenda supers game an attribute over 7 is superhuman and skills added to that is extreme levels of ability so 10 dice+ is rare. (not impossible or even unlikely, but not common.)
Quote3) in SW (the one we played had Darth Vader on the cover btw) they had Force Points. I'm generally not a fan of meta mechanics like fate points, luck points, etc. But Force Points were intrinsic to the setting and therefore the mechanics - not meta mechanics. Is there something in the new rules for this or is this eiliminated for the sake of realism? Is it tied to behavior or roleplaying or alignment/allegience/etc.?
There are fate points, character points and Ka points in in Godsend Agenda, I'm pretty sure Fate Points and Character points are in the general WEG D6 books so they're meta mechanic aspects.
Quote4) did WEG get on the bandwagon with Advantages/Merits and Disadvantages/Flaws? It seems to be a common mechanic most games have nowadays.
Mostly yes afaik.
Quote from: CleanCutRogue1) the wound resolution system - is it simple (like the damage boxes of WOD), numerically depletive (like hitpoints in d20), or something else? It was mentioned in your post (Technomancer) that there are two systems.
I'm speaking from the point of view of an old Star Wars player, so this might have changed. In Star Wars 1st ed, a wound system was used. The attacker rolled the damage for his attack, and the defender rolled his Strength (plus armor) to resist. You then compared the two:
Damage
Damage>=Strength: Wounded (-1D to everything)
Damage>=Strength x2: Incapacitated
Damage>=Strength x3: Mortally Wounded (each round, roll 2D vs the number of rounds you've been mortally wounded, if you roll less you die)
Star Wars 2nd ed changed this to a system where you compared the difference between damage and Strength (so 5 vs 9 was the same as 25 vs 29 - I don't remember the exact table though), Strength > Damage meant no effect, and if you took more than a certain number of stuns in a short time, you were knocked out. It also had optional(?) rules for hit locations (basically, if you were hit in the head damage increased by 1D and if you were hit in the torso it decreased by 1D).
Quote2) is it common to roll so many dice? How common? I'm fine tossing 3-5 dice for most actions (we do that in FUDGE, Gurps, etc. anyway). Is rolling 15 dice something that a player gets to do once in a great while (smiling the whole time he gathers them) or is it something that happens multiple times per sesson - making it not special and therefore just tedious?
A starting character, if thouroughly cheesed, can start with something like 7-8 dice in something (that's 5D basic ability which is only possible for non-humans, +2D skill, and +1D specialization - the latter one only existing in 2nd ed). More commonly, you'll have skills in the 3-6D range (2-4D base, +1-2D skill). Increasing skills that are already high is more difficult (the cost in XP is equal to the current number of dice, and each die is divided into three "pips" - it goes 1D, 1D+1, 1D+2, 2D). An experienced character might have 8D or 9D, and then he is definitely kick-ass level - that's roughly where the movie characters are at the end of the trilogy.
Look on page 2 for an explanation of the current wound system.
http://www.westendgames.com/d6/d6aref.pdf
wow - just looked up the price to buy the new edition of the books. They seem only available in hardcover and at 30 bucks a pop - um... wow.
So - if the rules are pretty much the same, I wonder what you need all three for? I'm assuming the fantasy version goes into details on magic and elves and such, and the futuristic one goes probably into cyberware, spaceships, and aliens. So what does the Adventure version offer that the other two don't? It seems like if I wanted to cover all the bases I'd get the Fantasy and the Space and ignore the Adventure.
But wow - 60 bucks and I don't even have a creature compendium or anything.
I'm starting to rethink.
OH - did any of you know you can order RPG stuff from Target?! Who would have thought? I found the books here (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=8-5/qid=1143212318/ref=sr_8_5/601-3718874-9792923?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=193286704X) when I googled!
You can get some from Walmart too..;/
Usually cheaper.
I tried... couldn't find it on Walmart's site... show me?
Quote from: CleanCutRogueI tried... couldn't find it on Walmart's site... show me?
I'm not sure they have D6, just rpg's in general sorry for the confusion.
I decided not to buy. Even though some of you were really helpful about helping me appreciate some of the points about the system - I just think it's 1) poorly packaged as a universal system and 2) not all that popular except in it's earler edition format (SW, etc).
If they come out with a single big book with a bunch of subsystems to plug & play, I'd pay for that. As it is,
Blah
Quote from: CleanCutRoguewow - just looked up the price to buy the new edition of the books. They seem only available in hardcover and at 30 bucks a pop - um... wow.
I'm starting to rethink
I'm looking on E-bay... always the SW books, not the core stuff.
I play online, so Dicepools... *shiver*
Rules lite like Fudge or something or the game takes days ;)
Quote from: EmryysI'm looking on E-bay... always the SW books, not the core stuff.
I play online, so Dicepools... *shiver*
Rules lite like Fudge or something or the game takes days ;)
What do you use to play online? I use IRC and Dicepools are easy as pie using certian dicerollers. (it adds em up for you even, ;) )
Quote from: SilverlionWhat do you use to play online?
I use GRiP (http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/catalog/pview.pl?action=view&stocknum=0000&h=header_catalog&s=)
It has a pretty sophisticated Dicetool... in fact it can do fudge rolls as well as pools :)
Here's GRiP in Action (http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=43&sid=024de3e9c7c64447498f4b11cc3d167d&mforum=grip)
Quote from: EmryysI use GRiP (http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/catalog/pview.pl?action=view&stocknum=0000&h=header_catalog&s=)
It has a pretty sophisticated Dicetool... in fact it can do fudge rolls as well as pools :)
Here's GRiP in Action (http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=43&sid=024de3e9c7c64447498f4b11cc3d167d&mforum=grip)
Then why the problem with dicepools? if its so sophisticated?
Quote from: SilverlionThen why the problem with dicepools? if its so sophisticated?
Well there isn't really with online play and a diceroller... just the memories of FTF ;)
...and stepping on stray d4's :(
Quote from: EmryysWell there isn't really with online play and a diceroller... just the memories of FTF ;)
...and stepping on stray d4's :(
Ah I see!
Behold the Ninja-Gamer!
What do you play online, Silverlion? Is it WEG's d6?