Settembrini
I think Burning Empires is a big grittier than Babylon 5 -- I'm not a fan of cultural stereotypes either. At the same time, I do recognize the limitations of the rpg medium: there are only 5 players at the table, the book can only contain so much information and the GM can only process so much. I think the key (and maybe this is revealing too much behind the veil) is to create an illusion of depth and multiplicity.

Elliot,
I'm sorry, I don't think I follow. Burning Empires requires that one player strongly play the opposition and push back hard against the players. In order to make that process a bit more fair -- because it's a competitive game -- we put the burden of arbitration on the rules and it is necessary for all of the players at the table to know the rules.

BE doesn't need a referee. It needs someone to play the bad guys to the hilt (and thereby play off the players' Beliefs and create situation in the game). Just like in My Life with Master. I think you underestimate the role of the GM in that game. His job isn't to hand out cookies and consult the rulebook. His job is to entice and induce the players into doing horrible, dastardly things with their characters -- so in the end they can't hope to confront him.

-Luke

QuoteI do recognize the limitations of the rpg medium

There is no limits in RPGs. That's what's so ultra-awesome! No budget too high, no cast to large! Go for it!
You should have played in my last Traveller campaign...complex societies and Psychohistoric Manipulation totally without placeholder PCs of the grandest order! Ah, the memories...

Must-buy-BE.
Must-salvage-subsystems.
Must paint sci fi minis
Must revise ground combat rules
Must play out FFW.

So much to do until the follow up campaign can start.

Quote from: lukeElliot,
I'm sorry, I don't think I follow. Burning Empires requires that one player strongly play the opposition and push back hard against the players. In order to make that process a bit more fair -- because it's a competitive game -- we put the burden of arbitration on the rules and it is necessary for all of the players at the table to know the rules.

BE doesn't need a referee. It needs someone to play the bad guys to the hilt (and thereby play off the players' Beliefs and create situation in the game). Just like in My Life with Master. I think you underestimate the role of the GM in that game. His job isn't to hand out cookies and consult the rulebook. His job is to entice and induce the players into doing horrible, dastardly things with their characters -- so in the end they can't hope to confront him.

Er, don't you mean that they can't wait to confront him? (BTW, where in the world did you get the impression that I thought the GM's job involved handing out cookies? Though if you can point me to a GM who does, I'd appreciate it because I love cookies.)

Anyway, I might be underestimating MLwM's GM but really my point is that the relative lack of discretion available to him in terms of available resources and interpretation of the rules does make it possible for him to push really hard. On the other hand, the bit of discretion left for him, in judging Intimacy/Desperation/Sincerity, means that "reasonable people can disagree" how the mechanics should be applied. That's not the case in Bridge, or Chess, or Panzerblitz, which allows them to be played fully competitively. Baseball can mostly work among adults using the honor system, but with occasional breakdowns, thus the need for umpires.

So basically I'm wondering where BE stands on the burden of arbitration scale, if you put Chess at one end and a freeform GMed game at other the end, with MLwM somewhere in the middle, though closer to Chess than most RPGs.

Edit: I have noticed how both MLwM and BW also take some of the burden of arbitration off by, essentially, reducing the importance of a niggling difference in a ruling. E.g., the dice mechanic of MLwM means that the GM's failure to award Sincerity can still be overcome by good dice rolling. I think BW has some similar characteristics at least some of the time.

Elliot,

I don't think my opinion on that scale will really be relevant to your question. The game should really speak for itself. I don't have the book or pdf in front of me at the moment, but when I get home tonight I'll post the text for the Role of the Players and the Role of the GM.

thanks,
-Luke

Quote from: Burning Empires pages 620-623GM's Authority
All of the GM's points, pools, figures of note and characters serve one purpose: to provide opposition, create adversity and foment conflict for the players. The GM, whether playing human or Vaylen, is the foil to the other side. His role is to get in their way and challenge them.

The GM is not the sole arbiter of the rules. He may not disregard rules as he sees fit and may not add others as he chooses. The rules are meant to stand on their own. Both player and GM abide by them—and call each other on breaking or bending them. Nor is the GM's role to "create the story." The story will emerge on its own as the GM challenges the players and as both sides push toward their respective objectives.

The GM's role in this game is quite fun. Since he doesn't have to worry about playing God, he's freed up to play the game. He gets to make a few characters, strategize his long-term plan and play the game to win.

That's right, win. If the GM doesn't play to win in this game, he's doing the players a disservice. Quite possibly, he's killing their fun. Does it mean he can just drop space rocks on the player characters, kill them and win by fiat? No. Are there any rules for winning by fiat in this game? No. The GM's got to see his plans made fruitful via the conflicts and the Infection. If he wants to bombard the planet with space rocks, that's a Gambit, Inundate or Take Action maneuver. The bombardment's effect is determined by the resolution of the action. But even being successful isn't enough. If he wants to win, he must reduce the players' disposition to zero. Then and only then does he win.

And what does he win? He stops the players from getting their objective, and he gets what he set out as his phase objective. So even then, winning is not total. Anything not covered in the phase objective isn't affected or is open to discussion as per the Epilogue guidelines.

Also, the GM is in a unique position. He can see the big picture—what the players are doing, as well as what the opposition is up to and plans to do. His perspective grants the power to hold off on one action while another player moves forward, so that the two pieces intersect dramatically at the table. More than any other player, the GM controls the flow and pacing of the game. It is, in fact, his job to keep the game moving. The best way to do this is by calling for a test. If the game is dragging, the GM should ask, "Is there a conflict here? What do you want?" He may not prevent a player from getting his scenes in a maneuver, but he can push a waffling player to move on. If there's a conflict or test to be made, he may demand the players roll for it and move on.

Most important, the GM is responsible for introducing complications to the story and consequences to the players' choices. Burning Empires is all about choices—from the minute you start creating a character, you are making hard choices. Once play begins, as players choose their paths, it is the GM's job to inject resonant and meaningful ramifications into play. A character commits a murder. No big deal, right? Well, there's justice and revenge to consider—that's the obvious stuff—but there's also big picture elements to consider: Whole provinces have risen in revolt due to one errant murder....

My Favorite Obstacle
Another duty of the GM does is to set the obstacles for tests or determine if a test is a versus or open test. It is his prime tool for challenging the players. And a lot of players cry foul that the GM can seemingly set an arbitrary difficulty for their goals. Well, tough luck, I say to them. Someone has got to make these challenges hard. In this game, the GM does that heavy lifting. His role is to challenge the players—setting obstacles is fundamental to that opposition.

[snip]

The GM's Special Powers: I Am Adversity
The GM's palette with which he can paint challenges consists of the setting, characters and situation established in the world burning and character burning process. He does not have unlimited reach or scope. He cannot just bring in whatever he wants; he can't do whatever strikes his fancy.
He's got to use the World Burner, Character Burner, Infection, Scenes and Conflicts, Duel of Wits and Firefight mechanics in the same fashion as the players.

He has a little leeway in the Infection mechanics: He doesn't have to give himself helping dice in the scenes to get helping dice for the maneuvers. His characters can help each other in the Infection mechanics so long as he features them in the scenes during the maneuver. It can be color or an interstitial; no dice need be rolled. Their presence in the scene is enough to get help for the Infection.

The most powerful special rules for the GM are his special Resources and Circles pools. He can spend Resource points during his scenes to bring hard tech into the game using the same rules for buying tech during character burning. Spend a point, get a gun, a ship or a fortress. Reduce the Resources exponent and carry on. No roll required.

Same goes for Circles. Forgot to bring in a bodyguard for a major villain? No problem. Just knock off two circles points and he's in the scene. The difference between Circles and Resources is that these points need to be set aside during character burning. The GM may not reduce reputations, affiliations or base Circles.

Using his freedom in the color and interstitials plus his ability to bring tech and contacts into the game without testing, the GM has weight in his favor with which he can test the players.

Elliot, there's the text straight from the game for the GM. There are two other similar sections. One for the group and one for the players. But I can't reproduce them here; they are too long.

Anyway, you can see how I outline the GM's special powers. BE is a very trad rpg in form, but inside that overall form there are some tweaks in order to make it run better with my design goals.

(You might also note that I contradicted myself here in regard to pacing!)

I do hope that helps answer your question!
-Luke

It does. There's a lot there that I really like, in fact it reminds me a bit of some ideas I had on designing an abstract mechanical substrate as an overall campaign framework.

I know a couple guys in my gaming group preordered BE; hopefully I'll get a chance to look it over and see the devils in all the details.