Personally, I think the best was to send a huge Fuck You to WotC is to take the CC srd, make a vastly superior game with it that doesn't inject their activism nonsense into it, and then overtake D&D much like pathfinder did back in the day.

5e imo is a great system at its core that has been underutilized and advanced upon by WotC so they can retain their geek tourists which infected the hobby. Critical Role and Stranger Things setback the hobby by decades imo.

Going the YouTube route seems pointless imo. All the WotC shills who feigned outrage when the ogl shit hit the fan have all gone back to giving WotC hickies on its taint. He'll just today Ghostfire games and the Dungeon Dudes agreed to sell their products directly on D&D beyond. So the "in" crowd on YT will continue to kiss the WotC ring and either ignore your video or, if you do start to gain traction, they'll just call you an alt incel.

Quote from: Monero on November 30, 2023, 06:10:03 PM
Personally, I think the best was to send a huge Fuck You to WotC is to take the CC srd, make a vastly superior game with it that doesn't inject their activism nonsense into it, and then overtake D&D much like pathfinder did back in the day.

Go for it, but don't be surprised when WotC claims credit for it, like they have claimed credit for BG3 (which they had nothing to do with other than granting permission.)

Quote from: Monero on November 30, 2023, 06:10:03 PM
Going the YouTube route seems pointless imo. All the WotC shills who feigned outrage when the ogl shit hit the fan have all gone back to giving WotC hickies on its taint. He'll just today Ghostfire games and the Dungeon Dudes agreed to sell their products directly on D&D beyond. So the "in" crowd on YT will continue to kiss the WotC ring and either ignore your video or, if you do start to gain traction, they'll just call you an alt incel.

You may have missed the Sinclair quote above, but I agree.  They cannot hear me.  Their brains simply won't process the dissonance unless they're very, very intelligent.

My target is their audience, who isn't getting paid to support D&D like they are.

Quote from: Monero on November 30, 2023, 06:10:03 PM
Personally, I think the best was to send a huge Fuck You to WotC is to take the CC srd, make a vastly superior game with it that doesn't inject their activism nonsense into it, and then overtake D&D much like pathfinder did back in the day.

5e imo is a great system at its core that has been underutilized and advanced upon by WotC so they can retain their geek tourists which infected the hobby. Critical Role and Stranger Things setback the hobby by decades imo.

Going the YouTube route seems pointless imo. All the WotC shills who feigned outrage when the ogl shit hit the fan have all gone back to giving WotC hickies on its taint. He'll just today Ghostfire games and the Dungeon Dudes agreed to sell their products directly on D&D beyond. So the "in" crowd on YT will continue to kiss the WotC ring and either ignore your video or, if you do start to gain traction, they'll just call you an alt incel.

I agree.  5e has two main issues, too many PC options piled on it and too much HP growth.  Other than that, the game mechanics are solid and easily usable for all kinds of things.

Quote from: mcbobbo on November 30, 2023, 06:14:28 PM
Go for it, but don't be surprised when WotC claims credit for it, like they have claimed credit for BG3 (which they had nothing to do with other than granting permission.)

That's just idiotic as a standard.

If the bar is "WotC might try to claim credit for it" we may as well get out of playing RPGs entirely, because WotC has claimed all RPGs only exist because D&D paved the way.

They claim some credit for RPGs in their entirety.

Savage Worlds? Palladium Books? GURPS? WotC can claim credit because it wouldn't exist without D&D.

No.

Your net is too broad for your own claims to hold merit with average people. Find some more reasonable position than what "WotC might try to claim."

The argument "well if you aren't giving something up are you really sacrificing?" is similar idiocy. If someone isn't purchasing anything from WotC they're already 100% doing what you want. Demanding extra on top as a show of loyalty to you (they're already in line with the cause... and were in line before your campaign even reached them) is just going to alienate them.

Your whole attitude feels more like a cry for attention and "me, me, me" than a genuine attempt at anything meaningful (if it were just about WotC, then people already not buying from them would be enough... but you demand a performance from them as a sign they're loyal to you specifically... not to the broader goal).

So try again with something more reasonable.

You're strawmanning me, and I can't quite determine why from your reply.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
That's just idiotic as a standard.

Good thing it isn't a standard.  The standard is "don't build the brand".

Where did I claim it was a standard?

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
Savage Worlds? Palladium Books? GURPS? WotC can claim credit because it wouldn't exist without D&D.

This is debatable by the facts (the game type existed before Gary sought to make it profitable.)  It is also unthinkable that WotC would name another successful, competitive brand as an example of their success.  Anyone who hasn't accepted a license from them and hasn't created a derivative of their work could likely sue.

Where did I claim WotC would try to take credit for Savage Worlds?

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
Your net is too broad for your own claims to hold merit with average people. Find some more reasonable position than what "WotC might try to claim."

Again, the position is "do not build the brand".  I've already said that OSR seems distinct enough, so how did you feel confident enough to twist my position to this quote?

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
The argument "well if you aren't giving something up are you really sacrificing?" is similar idiocy. If someone isn't purchasing anything from WotC they're already 100% doing what you want. Demanding extra on top as a show of loyalty to you (they're already in line with the cause... and were in line before your campaign even reached them) is just going to alienate them.

There is no "me" in this, period.

The message isn't intended to reach Paizo loyalists, True Savages, and the like.  It's intended for D&D players.

My comment had a simple context:  If you're not a D&D player, you're not the target for the message.

How did you miss that?

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
Your whole attitude feels more like a cry for attention and "me, me, me" than a genuine attempt at anything meaningful (if it were just about WotC, then people already not buying from them would be enough... but you demand a performance from them as a sign they're loyal to you specifically... not to the broader goal).

Please demonstrate some evidence that this is true, because it feels pretty libelous, honestly.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 04, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
So try again with something more reasonable.

I owe you no such duty, as you're not interested in participating beyond attacking me (for whatever reason), and that's not the point of this topic - it's intended to find collaborators.

Quote from: rytrasmi on November 30, 2023, 01:00:37 PM
Define D&D.

Are OSE, OSRIC, and Swords & Wizardry D&D?

Close enough, for the rest of our lives.

You're going to donate proceeds from an argument?

Quote from: Domina on December 05, 2023, 09:53:01 AM
You're going to donate proceeds from an argument?

I have merch.  It has Fivr art and a catchy slogan.  I'm considering letting all the profit from that go to charity.

Quote from: mcbobbo on December 05, 2023, 10:09:34 AM

Quote from: Domina on December 05, 2023, 09:53:01 AM
You're going to donate proceeds from an argument?

I have merch.  It has Fivr art and a catchy slogan.  I'm considering letting all the profit from that go to charity.

I wouldn't know how practical this would be but it would be nice if you used the money to actually print some of the cool games that are open licensed and trade them for 5e books at tables.  Then make a show of burning the books on a bon fire on youtube.

Edit:  Burn the 5e books I mean, not the cool ones.

Quote from: BadApple on December 05, 2023, 10:19:05 AM
I wouldn't know how practical this would be but it would be nice if you used the money to actually print some of the cool games that are open licensed and trade them for 5e books at tables.  Then make a show of burning the books on a bon fire on youtube.

Edit:  Burn the 5e books I mean, not the cool ones.

It's incredibly easy.  I've been using threadless.com for the few company t-shirts I've had made over the years.   You just click "Causes and Charities" on the design, select the one you want, and the level you want to donate.  They handle the rest.

The only hard part would be picking a charity that isn't SUPER lefty:

https://www.threadless.com/causes/

EDIT:  Donating is easy, but you're limited to what's on the list.

Quote from: mcbobbo on December 05, 2023, 10:37:41 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 05, 2023, 10:19:05 AM
I wouldn't know how practical this would be but it would be nice if you used the money to actually print some of the cool games that are open licensed and trade them for 5e books at tables.  Then make a show of burning the books on a bon fire on youtube.

Edit:  Burn the 5e books I mean, not the cool ones.

It's incredibly easy.  I've been using threadless.com for the few company t-shirts I've had made over the years.   You just click "Causes and Charities" on the design, select the one you want, and the level you want to donate.  They handle the rest.

The only hard part would be picking a charity that isn't SUPER lefty:

https://www.threadless.com/causes/

EDIT:  Donating is easy, but you're limited to what's on the list.

Ah I think I was unclear.

Step one: sell merch

Step two: use merch profits to print or buy good games with WOTC BAD logo on cover somewhere

Step three: find players using WOTC 5e and trade them for good games that were printed

Step four:  pile up 5e books and use them as a bon fire that is recorded and posted on youtube

Step five bask in the glow and laugh at WOTC

Quote from: BadApple on December 05, 2023, 11:18:24 AM
Ah I think I was unclear.

Step one: sell merch

Step two: use merch profits to print or buy good games with WOTC BAD logo on cover somewhere

Step three: find players using WOTC 5e and trade them for good games that were printed

Step four:  pile up 5e books and use them as a bon fire that is recorded and posted on youtube

Step five bask in the glow and laugh at WOTC

I would wholeheartedly endorse something like that, but need to focus my energies on taking a lot of fire from when I get over target...