Tékumel. The highly structured society meant that temples were superficially monolithic, but internally rife with secret societies which were often at odds with each others. And of course, the fact that gods have multiple, distinct Aspects meant that two priests or two shrines inside the same temple complex could be dedicated to very different deities with different rites, dogma, etc.

Forgotten Realms. I distinctly recall mention of distinct sects for Helm, and at least one "heretical" cult of Lathander.

Birthright. Different temples dedicated to the same god vying for the worship of common folk, was a staple of Birthright. Haelyn was the patron god of the Anuire, but off the top of my head I recall at least three distinct churches competing for the Anuirean flock. You could actually play a religious reformer heading a "new" temple, fighting older, estabvlished faiths of the same god for the people's "souls". Much fun was had by us back then.

The only reason the "Gods are utterly provably real" model in a setting would create a barrier to having multiple sects in a religion is basically if the designer of the setting wants it to be that way (i.e. if he gets the gods in question to be so all-out on the intervention scale that they personally detail how they should be worshiped, and also care enough to demand that be the only way).

Otherwise there are at least two basic reasons for divergent sects, neither of which are really limited by the fact of a god being provably real: the first would be location (deities worshiped in different regions should take on different modes of worship, and maybe even different names and physical appearances), and the second would be disagreements over what aspects of the deity (or the believer's relationship with the deity) are really the "most important".

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Besides I know of at least two Fantasy settings where the gods aren't provably real.

In Connan the lead doubts his God constantly even cursing him. The evil cultists he constantly faces may have their gods occasionally manifest but they seem more like demons.

In the Warhammer world it may seem Sigmar, Ulric, Morr etc. have power through their priests but the villain in Vampire slayer Krieger points out "cannot your wizards also heal the sick and cast out our kind? Just because you don't call it magic doesn't mean it isn't."

Speaking of the Warhammer world there is a definate divide in the cult of Sigmar between Luthor Huss' reformers and the conservative establishment. Although the return of a favourible Grand Theoginist may heal that rift.

Oh and speaking of the idiot humans and their false gods there is a rumour that the Bretonian "Lady" is infact a rather canny Lhamian Vampire.

Quote from: RPGPundit;445753How many religions in RPG settings do you know which have different sects or groups?

Because this is another big issue in why (in particular in fantasy setting) RPGs' treatment of religion is so fucking off; all too often all the faithful are of one big mono-cultural mono-dogmatic bloc, which is not how religions work in real life.

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In my own homebrew campaign, everyone essentially recognizes the same gods (there existence is just hard to dismiss since they intervene and grant spells). All the faiths are essentially different interpretations of the pantheon (some place more importance on certain deities, others view the same deity differently). The sects are wildly different enough to sometimes feel like different religions.

I believe Book of the Righteous also had different sects, at least for one of the churches.


Easy explanation for any religion: God grants spells to all who believe in him. The various canon nazis fight over exactly what is important. One sect is very ascetic, even self-mutilating. Another hoards wealth and builds giant cathedrals using slave labor. Both sects still get their spells, since they still believe in God.

Quote from: jibbajibba;445831So in the real world you can have all sorts of sects for a particular religion. the Catholics can burn the Protestants etc etc It doesn't 'matter' to god because he doesn't exist (the actual main difference between real religion and game religions).

Please leave your militant atheism out of this.

Quote from: danbuter;445970Please leave your militant atheism out of this.

Oh I am not milliant , more resigned.
But if the Pope could indeed bring down the power of the lord and smite his opponents with fire then the Irish unionists would look pretty silly.

In the Real religious schism often leads to sectarian violence, Sunni vs Shiite, Catholic vs Protestant, Muslim vs Jew, Christisn vs Muslim,  etc etc . Any lawful or good diety that would provide both sides of a conflict with magical powers to go out and kill each other is dubious.

As I said I could imagine a Chaos god, say Eris, gleefully powering up 4 or 5 different sects with magical thunderbolts and getting to work out what colour robes the high priest ought to wear through internicine conflict.

I really don't have an issue with lawful deities allowing sects. Think of how attorneys work. They follow the letter of the law as far as it will help them, only going by the spirit if necessary.

Quote from: Ian Warner;445955Oh and speaking of the idiot humans and their false gods there is a rumour that the Bretonian "Lady" is infact a rather canny Lhamian Vampire.

Vampire?  I always assumed it was Wood Elves.

Quote from: danbuter;445976I really don't have an issue with lawful deities allowing sects. Think of how attorneys work. They follow the letter of the law as far as it will help them, only going by the spirit if necessary.

As I tried to explain in my example above I think a lawful deity can have orders or separate tradditions but I don't think they can have sects.

Now this is a narrow distinction but I think sects differ in that a sect come into being because of a disagreement between how somethign should be done, a schism, and I am pretty sure a lawful deity has pretty strict ways about how something should be done, 10 commandments, books of Law etc whereas a Chaos god might well not.... Let what thou would'st do be the Whole of the Law.

Now that is my own pretty narrow defintion of a sect and I could see that you might have a different view but if you end up with two sects actually in antagonism and conflict with each other a 'real' lawful deity who provides actual material power due to some effort on their part is going to have an opinion on who is right.

PS. as per lawyers they follow the law to a degree but only in as much as they don;t actually care about the truth. In a legal battle a lawyer is duty bound to put their opinion about their client's actual innocence or guilt to one side. Their job is not to uncover the truth but to present their client's position in a s favourable light as possible, within the letter of the law.

Over in the real world there was certainly a time when pretty well everyone believed the gods were absolutely real. And yet in those times, there were still schisms.

The gods in our own history tended not to resolve schisms, except for once in a while bringing down chosen prophets.  They either didn't care about the variety of modes of worship of them, or they felt that to be a "true" believer you had to come to the true and non-heretical faith for yourself.

I don't see anything, again, in a fantasy world that is necessarily bound to be different.

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"It takes some courage mistress Wetherwax to stand before a god and declare yourself an athiest"

-One of the Discworld gods

Quote from: The Butcher;445866Birthright. Different temples dedicated to the same god vying for the worship of common folk, was a staple of Birthright. Haelyn was the patron god of the Anuire, but off the top of my head I recall at least three distinct churches competing for the Anuirean flock. You could actually play a religious reformer heading a "new" temple, fighting older, estabvlished faiths of the same god for the people's "souls". Much fun was had by us back then.

Yeah, Birthright did it well.

Quote from: RPGPundit;445936the second would be disagreements over what aspects of the deity (or the believer's relationship with the deity) are really the "most important".

RPGPundit

This is why there are different sects of Wee Jas in the Greyhawk setting.

Some worshippers place a lot more emphasis on her "Death" aspect than on her "Magic" aspect.

Quote from: PaladinCA;446446This is why there are different sects of Wee Jas in the Greyhawk setting.

Some worshippers place a lot more emphasis on her "Death" aspect than on her "Magic" aspect.

Great example. And all too rare in RPG settings.

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