How many religions in RPG settings do you know which have different sects or groups?

Because this is another big issue in why (in particular in fantasy setting) RPGs' treatment of religion is so fucking off; all too often all the faithful are of one big mono-cultural mono-dogmatic bloc, which is not how religions work in real life.

RPGPundit

This is an aspect that is respected in Glorantha in different pantheons. The Malkioni (Believers in the Invisible God), for instance, have different confessions within the same religion: Hrestoli, Brithini etc.

For what it is worth, I'll be having some of this in my upcoming SBA game.

Worthwhile point.


"And as with any institution run by mortals yet fueled by the passion of belief, players in Celtricia find sects, cults, and power-bases in a state of growth, change, or upheaval, as often as in a stable state.  In Argus, the Vernadalian worship takes the form of the Church of the Serpent Queen, while in Igbar the Serpent Queen cult has been banished and repudiated, replaced by the Church of the Green Mother.  The different foci and different morality systems of these related groups creates a conflict more bitter than a typical rival. "

(from the Celtrician worship page

"Two faiths of Great Nebler dominate Igbar.  The now-taken country of the Theocracy of Nebler lies to the east of Trabler, and most of the priesthood escaped into Igbar; but there is also a very large Church of the Lawful Triumverate, (which includes Nebler, along with Rakastra and Abradaxus the harsh), so those two groups are at odds."

"As with almost all Celtrician populations, the Planars that are not well represented in their own church or faith find refuge in small shrines or in alcoves of the dominant faiths.  For example, the Planar Froji has almost no churches or religions of his own. He is worshipped in the southern areas as part of 'The Reborn Anteledar-the faith of the Six', a religion based on the Idea that there is a dream world below the 'Waking Dream' of Celtricia. He was a minor player in the Faith of the Entropic Overlords in the days of Old Venolvia.
And this is what I meant by finding a shrine in a church that is dedicated to another religion. Many planars are not part of the major religions in a town or city, but over time small alcoves or shrines are often put up in related churches. And in this way, the individual parishes slowly change to reflect the needs of that locality."

"In Igbar, there is actually a full Alcove with a font and small statuette dedicated to Froji in the Church of Chaos and Change (Jubilex). Those who seek his favor will go there, and the priesthood of that Church will tend to the needs of Froji, as well as the Shrines of Paz-Hazzle, Orcus the Shepherd, and Lesmick of the Word."

"Someone down on their luck might visit the Dou~his of lucky Ishma, someone depressed might visit Jubilex, the Patron of Irony, and farmers who are planning might visit the Church of the Green Mother or the Church of the Earth. Stopping by a church or shrine is also a very social event, and carries connotations uniquely Celrician.  Almost everyone is greeted by name, or in the case of travelers with the term "Kerma, Amigal!" (Debased Klaxik for 'Most Welcome, Friend').  Churches always have hot tea in the winters or chilled 'Kerri' (chilled, sweetened, and watered down Vneersberry wine) by the front door, and after respects are made to the icons, there are always sitting areas where elders gather and mothers and youngsters stop by."

all from Religions and Faith in Igbar


"Church sponsored groups are a huge can of worms, as they can be very different. Some operate like the multinational groups mentioned above, like the Tristonian Knights of the Church of the Theocracy of Nebler (also of the Lawful Triumverate), the Defenders of the Land or the Bowyers of Ceminiar.  They are attached to Faiths but seperate from them, more similar to a sect.

On the other hand, The Cobranic School of the Church of the Green Mother, the Bone Knights of Orcus and the Armor of Trade are different, as these groups require more total commitment. These groups take most of their members in from the youth of their faith, and groom them.  These knighthoods act as arms of the particular churches they are attached to, more than as a seperate entity of the faith."

From Knighthoods and Fighting schools.

There are definitely sects in my homebrew campaign.  There is one big monotheistic religion that is predominate in urban areas, but there are splinter sects that differ from the main church's orthodoxy.  In particular, sects within the religion that revere particular saints are popular even though this is viewed as idolatrous by the mainstream church.

Outside the urban centers, there are all sorts of splinter sects that arose as the admixture of the main church and whatever "pagan" religions used to hold sway in those areas.

Hell, one of the PCs in my current game is an outlaw cleric who is basically Martin Luther if Martin Luther carried a mace and could rain fire down from the heavens.

Friction between sects was a major theme in one of my homebrew campaigns, but the players didn't get into it.  They're not comparative-religion nuts, so it didn't do it for them.

I try to have at least a veneer of 'realism' (there's that word!) when I design religious organizations for my games.  Enough to satisfy me if I were a player, but no more.  Designing minutiae is something I could easily get lost in, and if the players aren't into it, then the time spent is a little masturbatory.

That said, I prefer settings with well-thought-out religious structures - and that includes sectarianism and such.

Quote from: VectorSigma;445791Friction between sects was a major theme in one of my homebrew campaigns, but the players didn't get into it.  They're not comparative-religion nuts, so it didn't do it for them.

I try to have at least a veneer of 'realism' (there's that word!) when I design religious organizations for my games.  Enough to satisfy me if I were a player, but no more.  Designing minutiae is something I could easily get lost in, and if the players aren't into it, then the time spent is a little masturbatory.

That said, I prefer settings with well-thought-out religious structures - and that includes sectarianism and such.

This describes my games, too.  I like putting stuff like this in campaigns, but my players rarely give a crap.

I imagine if there are sects amongst WFRP Halflings each one will have a different prescribed filling for Pie Week!

Quote from: KenHR;445801This describes my games, too.  I like putting stuff like this in campaigns, but my players rarely give a crap.

The trick, I think, is to make these kinds of details intersect with the characters' livelihoods.  

For example, a charismatic sect-leader is kidnapped by a group of gnoll mercenaries and his faithful flock hire the PCs to rescue him.  When the PCs intercept the gnolls they discover that the mercenaries are in the pay of a corrupt orthodox cleric who wants to silence the sectarian leader by any means necessary.  

Once rescued, the sect-leader offers to reward the PCs if they step forward to the church's leaders and expose the corrupt cleric's evil plot.  Now they're firmly embroiled in sectarian warfare...especially if they guy they rescued has some dark secret that they eventually learn.

High Valor has the Church of the Martyr, which is its primary faith (and rewards faithful with miracles, blessings, etc.) However, it has numerous potential sects, orders of monks, and holy knights. They don't all agree on the same stuff either.

There are other religions, but they mostly rely on passed down magic (as opposed to true faithful rewards/guardianship.)

For most people though, faith is faith, no big supernatural stuff in their day to day lives.

The issue about this is the issue about how heretics get power from god(s).

So in the real world you can have all sorts of sects for a particular religion. the Catholics can burn the Protestants etc etc It doesn't 'matter' to god because he doesn't exist (the actual main difference between real religion and game religions).

Now in a game world where god(s) are real you have an issue. If the general population worship Odin and there is a sect that say they are all heretics and to worship Odin you have to wear the lightning-bolts right to left not left to right and so they go round burning the heretical R2Ls then Odin as a real deity that cares enough to grant his followers real manifest magical powers will step in and say "um ...Dave you got it wrong dude the R2Ls guys are spot on" or he will stop giving Dave the ability to summon divine thunderbolts...or he will do the same to the R2L guys.

So real sectarianism isn't goign to work becuase it tends to exist as opposition within one faith.

You can however get Aspects of a single faith that different cults latch onto. One of my Favourite Homebrewed dieties is The Sacred Flame. I built 3 different priest types that all worshiped the Flame

• The Fire of Truth - these guys were monastic and spent their time in serious study (d4 hp no armour lots of extra spells and spheres) and some of them were part of the Inquisition.
• The Flame of Vengance - these guys were a Militant Order (d8 hp, any armour, any weapons and could specialise - still with Priest THACO- restricted spheres, less spells) and they guarded holy sites, acted like the SS to the Inquisitor's Gestapo etc
• The Flame of Hearth - these were the guys that ran most of the temples, covered of the standard weddings, funerals, etc etc  they were (d6, limited armour and weapons, lots of spells but not quite as many etc ) and were the most common sort.

Now the deity The Flame was an abstracted LN fire diety and saw no real need to differentiate between the 3 branches of the religion as they were all Lawful and stuck to what it wanted. There was political tension between them and the inquisitors who were pretty strict on LAW burnt a few people but only those that didn't obey the law.
If a sect had turned up that said that Fire was free and destructive and Chaotic and had tried to drum up followers then well... The Flame wouldn't have granted them any magic power so they wouldn't have gotten very far against the Flame sword weilding militants.

I can see that a Chaos god might encourage schism and internicine warfare however. And that is actually a pretty good hook for a game right there.

Quote from: jibbajibba;445831Now in a game world where god(s) are real you have an issue. If the general population worship Odin and there is a sect that say they are all heretics and to worship Odin you have to wear the lightning-bolts right to left not left to right and so they go round burning the heretical R2Ls then Odin as a real deity that cares enough to grant his followers real manifest magical powers will step in and say "um ...Dave you got it wrong dude the R2Ls guys are spot on" or he will stop giving Dave the ability to summon divine thunderbolts...or he will do the same to the R2L guys.

I get around this by having clerics explicitly *not* get their powers directly from a god.  Rather, they get their powers from a ritual of initiation.  Splinter sects just up and use the initiation ritual of the orthodox church to bestow divine power upon their clerics.

Once bestowed through the sacred rites, such powers cannot be taken away.

Then again, in my campaign the gods are distant, uninvolved figures anyway.

Quote from: misterguignol;445834I get around this by having clerics explicitly *not* get their powers directly from a god.  Rather, they get their powers from a ritual of initiation.  Splinter sects just up and use the initiation ritual of the orthodox church to bestow divine power upon their clerics.

Once bestowed through the sacred rites, such powers cannot be taken away.

Then again, in my campaign the gods are distant, uninvolved figures anyway.

That would be different.
I tend to treat Priest casters like Christian Saints who are the 'real' equivalent.
You could go down the Islamic Marabout route and have a priests power contained in physical baraka and I think that would make a good game mechanic but for D&D the Christian Saint is a perfect match and I am sooo lazy

Quote from: jibbajibba;445840That would be different.
I tend to treat Priest casters like Christian Saints who are the 'real' equivalent.

That is how I tend to treat paladins, for the most part.  They're a bit like Joan of Arc; they aren't learned warriors of the faith, but rather normal folks who hear divine forces in their heads that tell them to go fight evil.

I take my cues from henotheism rather than the implied monotheism which tends to seep into gamer concepts of religion. There's no "faith" (believing in something unseen as St Paul said) because that shit is visible. There's little preaching or proselytising, heresy or dogma. Instead, it's about propitiation, group membership (larger community or exclusive cult) and when there is conflict it tends to be a sniffy attitude of "my god is bigger than yours" followed by a shrug of the shoulders.