Quote from: Kyle Aaron;984796It sounds like you are into storygames, not roleplaying games.

http://story-games.com/forums/

Umm, yeah, it's Itachi.

He's looking for narrative rules to enforce genre conventions to force gameplay down that path.  He's right in that there is no game out there doing this, which is a little surprising, actually.  But as he's basically saying sci-fi RPGs suck at not being RPGs, I wouldn't worry too much.

Quote from: Spike;985064You are talking about emergent play, and complaining about rules.  Catagory Error.

Oh, and this, of course.

Quote from: Itachi;984772So, thoughts? Are there genres the tabletop medium can't really do? If so, should we accept this fact and move on, or is worth trying to find a way to do it?

Other than most sci-fi role-players suck? No.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;985935Other than most sci-fi role-players suck? No.

Speak for yourself.

Quote from: CRKrueger;985914as he's basically saying sci-fi RPGs suck at not being RPGs, I wouldn't worry too much.

Oh.

Well at the moment we're playing a Classic Traveller game. In terms of exploring themes, it seems to be mostly, "wow, it's really easy to die horribly in space." I rolled up a Navy guy who was really strong, low class, 16 years in the service and never promoted, his first skill and last mustering out benefit was a blade. Then we rolled his starting planet and got a low-tech agricultural planet with low law level.

So I'm playing Danny Trejo from planet Mexico. In space, no-one can hear you cliche.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1371[/ATTACH]

That is awesome.  Also Raciss, but in an awesome way.   I am not ashamed to admit that I have watched the Machete movies and enjoyed them.

Quote from: Itachi;984879By this logic we could discard role-playing games altogether. In other words you agree with my original supposition that RPGs are only useful to facilitate stories involving action/adventure and nothing else. If that's the case, fine.

Is that really the case, though?

Itachi - you're nuts.
...and misguided.

What you describe as 'true science fiction' I did in my games about every 4th or 5th game session in both my TRAVELLER and 'Star Trek' campaigns...

The others are right, you apparently want some kind of story games foolishness.

- Ed C.

Nothing like shitting on storygames. Never gets old.

Quote from: Voros;986341Nothing like shitting on storygames. Never gets old.

Yes!  

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;986261Oh.

Well at the moment we're playing a Classic Traveller game. In terms of exploring themes, it seems to be mostly, "wow, it's really easy to die horribly in space." I rolled up a Navy guy who was really strong, low class, 16 years in the service and never promoted, his first skill and last mustering out benefit was a blade. Then we rolled his starting planet and got a low-tech agricultural planet with low law level.

So I'm playing Danny Trejo from planet Mexico. In space, no-one can hear you cliche.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1371[/ATTACH]

Sounds cool, though.

The most important ingredient in both the snacks at the game table, and the game itself, is cheese.

Quote from: flyingmice;984800I am sorry, deeply sorry. I have written more SF roleplaying games than anyone else, so I have the largest part of the blame for your hurt. I am personally at fault! I admire you so much! Here you have tried every SF RPG ever written, and none of them are what you want. That takes dedication! And you have played each of them with a variety of GMs and groups so you can control for the other factors! You must have even tried different snacks! A tear is trickling down my cheek, so overwhelmed am I by your disappointment! I'll go and chop my own head off now in shame.

[Whitney Houston]

AAAAAAAND IIIIIIIIII, IIIIIIIIIIIIII, IIIIIIIIIIIIII, WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

[/Whitney Houston]

Quote from: Voros;984809I don''t think all RPGs are only good for action/adventure. That is more a reflection of nerdculture's tastes than what you can and cannot do with any RPG system.

Interestingly, I was talking with a friend about our dislike for superhero movies, and we came to the conclusion that's because all them feel like action-popcorn to us only with different coats of paint (drama, sci-fi, etc) applied over. In other words, a single genre in different camouflages. Do you think the "nerdculture" has to do with it?

Quote from: Zevious ZoquisI'd argue that what RPGs do is use a given genre as a veneer for stories about action and combat

I agree if we are talking about mainstream, aka D&D and similars. But I like to think games like Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, Paranoia, Amber, Vampire, Sorcerer & siblings, etc. tried to deviate from this paradigm, with different degrees of success.

QuoteIn general, I think "deeper" endeavours require a degree of ability from both the gm and the players such that it just isn't a realistic expectation of the medium...it's the search for that (I feel) that brought on the efforts to increase the narrative aspects of RPGs (to their detriment, imho.)

I don't think it's necessarily a matter of "deeper" endeavours, so much as different "kind" of endeavours. I've played games like Pendragon, Hillfolk and Sagas of the Icelanders (I'm big fan of the later) and found them fascinating, and not "deeper" at all than any other kind of game, just different. So I'm not convinced the medium is limited to combat-centric adventures.

QuoteYou don't even need an rpg to do it. You just need a group of people who want to tell a story

But if you don't need a game, we are not talking about RP games, right? We are entering the territory of sheer improv storytelling (which I don't have anything against, mind you).

Quote from: jhkim;985780I'll repost Vargold and my's responses on this, which had some more concrete examples.

Quote from: VargoldI personally always admired the old Traveller 2300 adventure, Energy Curve--the one where the PCs get stuck on a cold planet only to discover that it's home to a race of sentient plants. It's not a great module, but it's a great set-up. You get to do first contact, and then, assuming the PCs arrange their rescue, you get to deal with the fallout: do the PCs have a duty to the aliens? or are they going to cash in on them?

Quote from: JhkimTo take another one from my old Star Trek campaign, the PCs contacted a planet that had overcome aging - where the age of majority was 50. They were in conflict with the government, and from there became embroiled with a youth rebellion who took a hard-line stance against any age discrimination. It meant a tricky alliance with some difficult choices.

I think it would be a good basis to go from.

This is what I'm talking about, thanks! So you think it's possible to explore this kind of (non-veneer) Sci-fi in RP games? How would you do it? Why those two games worked, in your opinions?

Quote from: trechriron;985696I am astonished that this thread managed 10 pages with the flimsy premise of the OP post.

You can emulate nearly anything (story, adventure, premise, theme) with any of the sci-fi rulesets out there. Sure, something more generic may be easier to focus on specific themes, while others are built for a specific sci-fi theme. You may have some work depending on what ruleset you go with. But saying all sci-fi RPGs suck because you can't imagine how you can play The Arrival in one is pure absurdity. Hence my original reply of absurdity.

I would love to have a meaningful discussion if perhaps the OP could draw up some actual points on HOW sci-fi RPGs fail to work IN THEIR OPINION. Like actual points of discussion vs. the wide-open statement the OP made with such a factual-assumed tone.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in the OP. The point is not that I (or somebody else) cannot play Black Mirror or Arrival, my point is: there are no games that I know of that promote the kind of situations seen in those works just like, say, Pendragon does for arthurian stories, Traveller does for space opera (in it's Third Imperium version) or Leverage does for heist movies.

Someone cited the Transhuman Space and Eclipse Phase settings. I agree these are so full of technological changes that they guarantee every place you step you will experience some culture shock. Still, I would consider they a good "canvas" for what I'm searching here, and not exactly what I'm looking for.

Quote from: Itachi;986602Interestingly, I was talking with a friend about our dislike for superhero movies, and we came to the conclusion that's because all them feel like action-popcorn to us only with different coats of paint (drama, sci-fi, etc) applied over. In other words, a single genre in different camouflages. Do you think the "nerdculture" has to do with it?

I know many here get their panties twisted if anyone deigns to say anything negative about the nerd subculture but I'd say the problem for much of the subculture is that it is so self-referencial and has so much reverence towards such a narrow range of cultural material (Star Wars, LotR, Marvel comics) that it chokes on its own tropes and constant fanservice.