So, they long-missing Scarlet Empress is coming back, in an act of the Metaplot the WW people keep swearing never happens in Exalted ( I continue to contend that they never got rid of metaplot, just turned it sideways, as it were).
What does this massive major event represent? Even some of the WW-swine are suggesting its a Shark-Jumping moment. I think that moment came and went quite some ways back. WW's sales are so in the toilet, particularly for Exalted, that this is their last desperate death rattle, groaning and croaking trying to wheeze in just a little more air in the desperate struggle to escape from inevitable demise.
What do you think?
RPGPundit
Exalted isn't even a blip on my radar, much like the Palladium system. I won't even hear the death rattle nor notice when it is gone.
Quote from: RPGPundit;337015What do you think?
In context of the game, I don't like it. It was a big mystery. Leave it that way.
In terms of the line, I wonder if it doesn't signal the end...
Seanchai
The whole setting was predicated on her absence. Bringing her back changes everything. In publishing terms this would seem to be a good time to either wrap up or reboot the line. I don't know if WW has plans to do either.
The original late 3I setting of Traveller had two big secrets—the Droyne are the Ancients and the Aslan are not a major race. Those secrets could be revealed by the players and did not have a great effect on play opportunities afterward. The return of the Scarlet Empress seems more on par with MegaTraveller's civil war which showed up in every adventure. It will change the allegiance of every Exalted. It will change the character of the setting. This is the kind of metaplot i don't like to see imposed by the publisher. If an individual GM (with the consent of the group) wants to change the basic assumptions of an ongoing campaign, fine. I just don't like it imposed from outside the group. Sure you can ignore it, but it's still annoying.
Of course, i don't play Exalted. This is just an interesting example of line development to me. It is such a fundamental change, that it seems to signal either a wrap up or reboot. If WW doesn't do either, they're just being jerks. ;)
My understanding is that it's a book of possibilities, not actual metaplot stuff that will have any bearing on any books that may be published afterward. 'course it could end up kind of like Time of Judgment.
How long does it take for a setting to be considered abandoned and open to the public? Exalted with a little cleaning up and a system that doesn't suck would be pretty tempting.
Quote from: Gordon Horne;337033The whole setting was predicated on her absence. Bringing her back changes everything.
The Exalted themselves change everything. That's the problem with Exalted. The nature of the PC's rewrites the rulebook, the history and the setting every day.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;337036The Exalted themselves change everything. That's the problem with Exalted. The nature of the PC's rewrites the rulebook, the history and the setting every day.
Polishing off the old chestnut, it's arguable that this is a feature, not a bug.
That said, hunh. Part of the appeal of the game was the plethora of mysteries scattered across the ridiculously-scaled map. Of course, they started crimping off many of those mysteries with each of the 1st edition fat-splats they released. I got the impression that 2nd edition engaged in nailing things down even further.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;337035How long does it take for a setting to be considered abandoned and open to the public? Exalted with a little cleaning up and a system that doesn't suck would be pretty tempting.
There are a number of hacks already out there, the favorite of mine being Bruce Ferrie's conversion for
HeroQuest (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/bferrie/resources/exaltedindex.htm). It'd be nice to see a complete and official adaptation.
!i!
Not likely. Exalted's death knell would be a 3rd edition that doesn't jettison the Storyteller System and a fair number of hubris-ridden writers.
Where is the proof that WW sales or Exalted sales are "in the toilet"? The same source that keeps saying that D&D 4e hasn't sold any copies even though bookstores and game stores keep magically restocking them?
I would not be surprised WW is struggling. Every game company is struggling in this recession, but I wonder about pronouncements that WW is doing worse compared to the others.
Oddly, all the talk about games being recession-proof or RPGs doing well in a recession has turned out to be sad bullshit. If anything, the recession has been about "playing with the toys you already own"
Exalted 1e was great fun. I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.
The Empress coming back is both a good cap for 2e and radically alters the setting for the inevitable coming of Exalted 3e. Hopefully, the 3e system will be more streamlined.
Quote from: Spinachcat;337046Exalted 1e was great fun. I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.
Sigh... the label generates posts- like yours, for example. That is the entire point of it- in this case- anyway.
The thing that astounds me is that this far in posters as seemingly sophisticated and intelligent as yourself are still rising to the bait.
Like all really good trolls, the pundit mixes statements that he actually means with silly posts engineered to create controversy.
Controversy=posts.
Well Trolled, Pundit.
Quote from: Spinachcat;337046Exalted 1e was great fun. I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.
It could be argued that White Wolf were swine well before there even was a Forge. Or maybe swine precursors. Their older products especially dripped with that kind of hubris.
That said, my only real problems with Exalted are A) the horrid system, and B) their need to sexualize
everything. It's annoying.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;337036The Exalted themselves change everything. That's the problem with Exalted. The nature of the PC's rewrites the rulebook, the history and the setting every day.
That's more or less what I mean by "metaplot by the backdoor". The setting basically gets changed with every "splatbook" in such a radical way that you have to buy all the splatbooks if the next one is going to be useful.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Seanchai;337025In context of the game, I don't like it. It was a big mystery. Leave it that way.
In terms of the line, I wonder if it doesn't signal the end...
Seanchai
I totally agree with the first part.
For the second, though, this is a big mega-adventure, not a regular sourcebook. They've said that future books won't include this as having happened, implying that there are future books to come (and I think the 2e Alchemicals book will be coming out after it.)
But eh. Time will tell.
Quote from: Spinachcat;337046Where is the proof that WW sales or Exalted sales are "in the toilet"? The same source that keeps saying that D&D 4e hasn't sold any copies even though bookstores and game stores keep magically restocking them?
There seems to be some pretty solid evidence that WW's share of the market has been on a death spiral for many years now, to the point that they are no longer in any meaningful way the "number 2"; they are now about as significant as any of the other "second tier companies". Will they fall further still? I don't know, but the point is that this is already a pretty significant decline from when they were a serious competitor to D&D.
QuoteI would not be surprised WW is struggling. Every game company is struggling in this recession, but I wonder about pronouncements that WW is doing worse compared to the others.
They were in serious decline long before the economy went to shit.
QuoteExalted 1e was great fun. I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.
It was like Bravo-channel "Porn for pretentious people". It tried to pretend it wasn't rampant powergaming, so that WW-swine could powergame while still turning up their noses at D&D.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;337071It was like Bravo-channel "Porn for pretentious people". It tried to pretend it wasn't rampant powergaming, so that WW-swine could powergame while still turning up their noses at D&D.
RPGPundit
I agree. There's always been a strong "do as I say (in the fluff text), not as I do (in the actual game design, superpowers, splatbooks etc)" vibe from White Wolf. It's a fundamentally disingenuous way to talk about gaming, as if some of these guys/designers actually love gaming for what it actually is, cheetos and all, but don't want to admit it, to rather compare themselves to modern storytellers, poets and intellectuals. It's bullshit, but it's part of the identity of the products at this point, so the new writers, who might write completely differently for other games, still follow this trend of bullshit today.
Quote from: RPGPundit;337015So, they long-missing Scarlet Empress is coming back, in an act of the Metaplot the WW people keep swearing never happens in Exalted ( I continue to contend that they never got rid of metaplot, just turned it sideways, as it were).
I think you're absolutely right about the metaplot.
As for the "death rattle" and "desperate cash grab" quips, I disagree. I'm pretty sure they had this planned long ago as a possible product. Jon Chambers was talking about this as early as Origins 2008 at a (sparsely attended) Scion/Exalted Q&A session.
There's no doubt that Exalted (and White Wolf's other games) probably aren't doing so hot commercially, but they are all extremely niche and, in Exalted's case, suffer from horrible editing and many bad design decisions. That being said, there are a number of highly anticipated books coming out for Exalted soon, not just the Empress book. I won't be buying them, but still, the vocal fanbase sounds excited.
Quote from: Aporon;337088There's no doubt that Exalted (and White Wolf's other games) probably aren't doing so hot commercially, but they are all extremely niche and, in Exalted's case, suffer from horrible editing and many bad design decisions. That being said, there are a number of highly anticipated books coming out for Exalted soon, not just the Empress book. I won't be buying them, but still, the vocal fanbase sounds excited.
Hell, I'm not even a fan and I'm interested. It's the first Exalted product I've been excited about since . . . well, since the 1e corebook was released. That excitement didn't last long, and I don't get the books anymore, but I do peruse the occasional Exalted thread to keep up with some of the metaplot thingies, as they do still interest me. Just not a $40 a pop, only to discard the system anyway, amount of interest.
I want to know the various directions the Exalted writers themselves imagine taking the whole Scarlet Empress thing. Me, I'm still banking money of the SE manipulating herself into a position to actually supplant the ED's fetich soul. I think she's playing the ED and he doesn't even know it.
Quote from: Aos;337061Like all really good trolls, the pundit mixes statements that he actually means with silly posts engineered to create controversy.
It seems to me that "swine" actually means "games Pundit doesn't like", but I like giving Pundit a chance to explain himself. Especially since Exalted is their least angsty game.
I can see the "game as art" pretentiousness with Vampire or Promethean, but Exalted? I haven't read much of 2e, but 1e was just kitchen sink anime power fantasy turned to 11.
And WTF are you doing making coherent sentences in a post?
Aos, get thee back to quips and non-sequitors.
Quote from: RPGPundit;337071There seems to be some pretty solid evidence that WW's share of the market has been on a death spiral for many years now, to the point that they are no longer in any meaningful way the "number 2"; they are now about as significant as any of the other "second tier companies".
Every bookstore that I have seen with RPGs has D&D and WW. Often plenty of WW lines. Its always a crapshoot to see if any other RPGs are present. Usually Shadowrun and Dark Heresy and Rifts Ultimate if any others at all are on the shelf.
WW is easily #2. But I agree that the financial distance between #1 and #2 has increased.
Quote from: RPGPundit;337071It tried to pretend it wasn't rampant powergaming, so that WW-swine could powergame while still turning up their noses at D&D.
Show me one group of non-D&D players who doesn't turn up their noses to D&D. Hell, it's been a 30 year tradition for various D&D edition players to turn their noses to whatever is the current edition.
I remember the bitches in the 80s who argued that AD&D 1e wasn't real D&D because it wasn't their coveted white / brown box.
Dinosaur vanilla skyscraper.
Quote from: LeSquide;337070They've said that future books won't include this as having happened...
Then what's the point? (Aside from selling books.) It's like one of those hokey time travel Star Trek episodes that you don't even need to watch because nothing changes once the episode is over. If it's not a game changer, what's the point?
I also don't like the Choose-Your-Own-Truth approach to source material. Pick something and go with it - I can change it myself if I don't like it.
Seanchai
Quote from: RPGPundit;337071[WW] tried to pretend [Exalted] wasn't rampant powergaming...
I realise I'm betraying Aos here, but I have to call this out as one of the most absurd assertions you've ever made. Dude,
Exalted has always been "powergaming" in all-caps.
!i!
Quote from: Ian Absentia;337177I realise I'm betraying Aos here, but I have to call this out as one of the most absurd assertions you've ever made. Dude, Exalted has always been "powergaming" in all-caps.
!i!
Don't get me wrong, man.
I have no interest in killing the pundits mojo. I've learned that you can post "He is trolling you!" 1000 times and it never fucks things up for the troll. Moths don't get fire safety.
Quote from: Ian Absentia;337177I realise I'm betraying Aos here, but I have to call this out as one of the most absurd assertions you've ever made. Dude, Exalted has always been "powergaming" in all-caps.
!i!
But its "ART" in all caps as well. They're all about "Upgrade your game", etc etc. Its like those shows on Bravo full of blurry fucking and partial nudity but done "tastefully" to try to let intellectuals feel its ok to watch Porn, while still looking down on the "unwashed masses" getting off on actual good hardcore full-frontal fucking in videos not pretending to be something other than what they are.
Exalted is so that the WW-Swine can have their cake and eat it too. Still pretend to be sophisticated, while blowing up cities; by being able to claim on RPG.net, as I once literally saw someone claim "Exalted isn't about blowing up cities! Its about dealing with the THEMES that come from having the power to blow up cities". There isn't a fucking rolleye smiley big enough.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;337203Exalted is so that the WW-Swine can have their cake and eat it too.
No shit, dude. Was this a big mystery to you? They made a game to suit their crowd. WotC made a game to suit theirs. Hell, you made a game to suit yours. Here's your entree to make your next statement of the painfully obvious.
But I really have to hammer this nail down farther: From the very outset,
Exalted has been all about powergaming. It was like they created an explosive, murderous playground for all of the powergamers who bloated the fandom of the
World o' Darkness line. You can get itchy over the advertising campaigns and individual fans on RPG.net all you want and go on about how they hurt your precious sensibilities, but you can't make this shit stick to the wall.
!i!
Quote from: Seanchai;337176Then what's the point? (Aside from selling books.) It's like one of those hokey time travel Star Trek episodes that you don't even need to watch because nothing changes once the episode is over. If it's not a game changer, what's the point?
I also don't like the Choose-Your-Own-Truth approach to source material. Pick something and go with it - I can change it myself if I don't like it.
Seanchai
Its meant so the GM can include it if he likes, perhaps as a way to cap off a long running game. If you don't want to include it, or have your own ideas about what happened to the Scarlet Empress, future books won't mess you up. They did some similar stuff with mega-adventures in 1e.
I have my own pet theory about the Empress. The way I see it, the important thing is that she was able to enter the Imperial Manse, activate the Sword of Creation, and nuke the shit out of everything. The reason for that is that her Motivation was 'Save creation'. That's the requirement for entering the Imperial Manse and activating the superweapon.
However, after 800 years of rule, her Motivation changed to 'Preserve the Realm'. Not quite the same thing. When the Solars first started appearing and the Deathlords came out with the Abyssals, she tried after many centuries to enter the Manse again. She was not able to do so. Her entire rule is based on the power of the Imperial Manse, if she tells anyone it will be civil war for sure.
The Brozne faction whisked her away so they can attempt to fix this. So where is the Empress? Meditating in Yu-Shan, under the protection of the Sidereals. She will have to change her motivation to Saving Creation if she's ever to stop the threats to it...or pass the rule to someone else who is worthy.
Dunno if I'm really going with that, but I like it :).
Quote from: RPGPundit;337203But its "ART" in all caps as well. They're all about "Upgrade your game", etc etc. Its like those shows on Bravo full of blurry fucking and partial nudity but done "tastefully" to try to let intellectuals feel its ok to watch Porn, while still looking down on the "unwashed masses" getting off on actual good hardcore full-frontal fucking in videos not pretending to be something other than what they are.
Exalted is so that the WW-Swine can have their cake and eat it too. Still pretend to be sophisticated, while blowing up cities; by being able to claim on RPG.net, as I once literally saw someone claim "Exalted isn't about blowing up cities! Its about dealing with the THEMES that come from having the power to blow up cities". There isn't a fucking rolleye smiley big enough.
RPGPundit
There's nothing wrong with dealing with themes. We do it all the time in our games, because its fun. I like movies and books that deal with themes.
Exalted is very much about what you do with power. It is also about letting loose your inner 14 year old and just being irrepressibly awesome :).
Old school D&D for instance has themes of exploration, the unknown, and the triumph of the civilized over the savage. All games have themes. I can't really imagine one without a theme.
Quote from: Maddman;337219There's nothing wrong with dealing with themes.
Yeah, but blurry porn is fucked up.
Quote from: Ian Absentia;337218No shit, dude. Was this a big mystery to you? They made a game to suit their crowd. WotC made a game to suit theirs. Hell, you made a game to suit yours. Here's your entree to make your next statement of the painfully obvious.
Yes but
their fans suck and he represents the silent majority of alpha bump endowed male gamers.
Regards,
David R
Being a knuckle dragging, slack-jawed, beef-witted D&D powergamer alpha male jock myself, I always thought the idea of Exalted (energetic, high-flying, cinematic anime cheese-filled fantasy superheroics) was right up my alley.
It might have even supplanted D&D as my favorite game, if it wasn't for the dice pool mechanic.
Oh god, how I hate dice pool mechanics.
I remember someone asking White Wolf if they would ever do a D20 conversion of Exalted, to which one of their execs replied:
"No...because Exalted is it's own entity and it doesn't NEED a D20 conversion"
Dude...yes it does.
Exalted's mechanics are not worth saving at all, therefore if they don't fuck it up (and given their track record, chances are good that it will happen), a d20 conversion (particularly a SE d20 conversion) could very well be a boon to the longevity of the game.
Quote from: Maddman;337219They did some similar stuff with mega-adventures in 1e.
What are those like? The only thing I have of first edition is the core rulebook.
Seanchai
Quote from: Shazbot79;337266"No...because Exalted is it's own entity and it doesn't NEED a D20 conversion"
Dude...yes it does.
I'm pretty sure they encountered less than impressive results with their early parallel
GURPS releases for the
WoD line. I personally don't blame them for keeping the IP of their setting restricted to their house system, at least until they feel they've played out the potential for it. Perhaps it is time to farm it out to a third party for an alternate treatment.
That said, and back to the OP, bringing the Scarlet Empress back as a "final flourish" to the game does rather undermine the notion that there's no metaplot to wrap up.
!i!
The problem with GURPS conversions... was the choice of GURPS. Seriously, the oWoD games were superhero games with eyeshadow, leather, and wangst; they should have gone with HERO.
Quote from: DeadUematsu;337323The problem with GURPS conversions... was the choice of GURPS. Seriously, the oWoD games were superhero games with eyeshadow, leather, and wangst; they should have gone with HERO.
Hero might have been a better fit, but Hero Games was wary of licenses at the time.
And SJG sought out WWG, from what I've read. (I was a GURPS player back then...)
I imagine that a very real problem, from the perspective of White Wolf, was brand dilution of their very popular game line. I hate to parrot marketing-speak like that, but WoD was their company identity at the time (sorry Ars Magica), and I think it rather confused matters to have their company identity being associated with another company's game. In that light, looking back at Shazbot's post above, I think the WW company line that Exalted was it's own entity was quite true -- it was a sort of transitional flagship game as WoD was on the wane.
!i!
Quote from: Seanchai;337287What are those like? The only thing I have of first edition is the core rulebook.
Seanchai
Time of Tumult had a couple of adventures in it. One was a pretty neat adventure in which the PCs and some Dragon-Blooded end up in a haunted manse far in the North, and the other is a "save the princess" style adventure set in the West. The former starts off as a D&D-esque wilderness survival romp and then becomes a pseudo-horror drama. The latter has stats for absolutely everything except the one entity the PCs will almost certainly fight.
Exalted: The Autochthonians had many broad suggestions for how a campaign involving the Autochthonian invasion of Creation could be run, with advice for how each type of Exalt (i.e. the PCs) could take center stage.
I believe
Bastions of the North also had an adventure in it, but I did not read it.
Quote from: Ian Absentia;337303I'm pretty sure they encountered less than impressive results with their early parallel GURPS releases for the WoD line. I personally don't blame them for keeping the IP of their setting restricted to their house system, at least until they feel they've played out the potential for it. Perhaps it is time to farm it out to a third party for an alternate treatment.
That said, and back to the OP, bringing the Scarlet Empress back as a "final flourish" to the game does rather undermine the notion that there's no metaplot to wrap up.
!i!
I can understand wanting to keep your IP distinctive, particularly in a market that is competing with D&D.
However, I really think that Exalted needs a major mechanics enema.
Hmmm...wonder if anyone has thought to convert Exalted to Savage Worlds or Spirit of the Century rules?
Quote from: Ian Absentia;337218No shit, dude. Was this a big mystery to you? They made a game to suit their crowd. WotC made a game to suit theirs. Hell, you made a game to suit yours. Here's your entree to make your next statement of the painfully obvious.
But I really have to hammer this nail down farther: From the very outset, Exalted has been all about powergaming. It was like they created an explosive, murderous playground for all of the powergamers who bloated the fandom of the World o' Darkness line. You can get itchy over the advertising campaigns and individual fans on RPG.net all you want and go on about how they hurt your precious sensibilities, but you can't make this shit stick to the wall.
!i!
What the fuck is your point, dude?
You keep pretending like what I'm saying is "Exalted isn't a powergaming game, its a pretentious game", when I'm saying quite the opposite: its a game that lets PRETENTIOUS people powergame, and still feel superior about "how" they do it. Its EXTREME POWERGAMING, and its also EXTREMELY PRETENTIOUS.
"Oh yeah? Well... its also powergaming!" is not an adequate rebuttal to that statement in any universe.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Maddman;337219There's nothing wrong with dealing with themes.
There is if you're just saying you're doing that, as a bold-faced lie meant to cover up that you're as much of a powergaming little munchkin as the worst D&D player, and you just want to keep being able to pretend that you're a special "artiste" who is vastly superior to the "unwashed masses".
Its kind of like if a European Anti-American Marxist was caught eating a hamburger that's really just McDonald's with another label, or if an environmentalist were to use a car that was labeled "green" but actually ran 2 miles to the gallon.
QuoteOld school D&D for instance has themes of exploration, the unknown, and the triumph of the civilized over the savage. All games have themes. I can't really imagine one without a theme.
Oh my, but if that were true then WW gamers wouldn't be any better than the "unwashed masses"?!! How could that be?
You should try telling that to your buddies on rpg.net who insist that D&D is just "mindless powergaming" while they talk about what city-destroying charms their Solar Exalt can combo up to use.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;337392What the fuck is your point, dude?
My point is that you clearly stated that WW pretended that
Exalted wasn't "powergaming" when they clearly never did such a thing. Now you're shifting your goalpost to cover your gaffe. Pat yourself on the shoulder and take a victory lap.
!i!
I'm totally winning this thread.
Quote from: Aos;337225Yeah, but blurry porn is fucked up.
How can you tell when its all blurry?
Quote from: Aos;337407I'm totally winning this thread.
But only because I'm letting you.
!i!
Quote from: Shazbot79;337266Being a knuckle dragging, slack-jawed, beef-witted D&D powergamer alpha male jock myself, I always thought the idea of Exalted (energetic, high-flying, cinematic anime cheese-filled fantasy superheroics) was right up my alley.
It might have even supplanted D&D as my favorite game, if it wasn't for the dice pool mechanic.
Oh god, how I hate dice pool mechanics.
I remember someone asking White Wolf if they would ever do a D20 conversion of Exalted, to which one of their execs replied:
"No...because Exalted is it's own entity and it doesn't NEED a D20 conversion"
Dude...yes it does.
Well, everyone has different tastes. You dislike dice pools. I've come to dislike games without them, or at least games without success levels. I don't want to just know if an action succeeds or fails, I want to know how well it succeeds, or how close it was to failing, or what have you. Binary systems don't give me enough information.
Exalted's mechanics are a bear, I'll admit that. However, they also do some interesting things in play that were not obvious on a first read. I really wouldn't be interested in a conversion, though I do hope they simplify things further in the next edition.
Quote from: RPGPundit;337396Oh my, but if that were true then WW gamers wouldn't be any better than the "unwashed masses"?!! How could that be?
I find it hilarious that you think White Wolf gamers are some kind of elitist horde. It really never stops being funny.
Most of the people I play with don't call themselves WW Gamers or D&D players. They're gamers. They have no problem pretending to be an elf on Mondays and pretending to be a vampire on Thursdays. You've extracted one paragraph of an author trying to differentiate his game 15 years ago into an imagined conspiracy theory.
QuoteYou should try telling that to your buddies on rpg.net who insist that D&D is just "mindless powergaming" while they talk about what city-destroying charms their Solar Exalt can combo up to use.
RPGPundit
Yes, I'm high in the RPGnet hierarchy. :rolleyes:
Folks on RPGnet don't talk about d20/D&D much any more. They have their own forum, on the rare occasion I do go over there I stay in RPG Open. In truth I post here more than there.
Quote from: Maddman;337426I find it hilarious that you think White Wolf gamers are some kind of elitist horde. It really never stops being funny.
I'd love to take on this maddening assertion myself, but I've read too many rpg.net Exalted threads. When you've got fans telling other fans that their Abyssals campaign idea (which is fully supported by every damn book mentioning them) is "brining Exalted down to the level of D&D" (srsly wtf), it's obvious that this trend exists, even if it is a mostly online phenomenon.
Quote from: Shazbot79;337363I can understand wanting to keep your IP distinctive, particularly in a market that is competing with D&D.
I actually thought that exalted, with its ridiculous action and over-the-top magic would be a great fit for either a 3.5 or 4E conversion.
Quote from: Shazbot79;337363However, I really think that Exalted needs a major mechanics enema.
Indeed. Setting up a static defensive value instead of an active opposed roll removed half the dice rolling for an attack, and would be a friggin' great step forward if it weren't so bloody difficult to calculate on the fly (does my charm add to my pool that calculates my DV or to DV itself or...).
Similarly, the initiative tick system, while admirable in its effort to make combat more continuous and less discrete, is sorta defeated by the capability to "flurry" on the same initiative tick.
Quote from: Shazbot79;337363Hmmm...wonder if anyone has thought to convert Exalted to Savage Worlds or Spirit of the Century rules?
http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/wiki.pl?NPCNWO/SavageWorlds
Quote from: Aporon;337433I'd love to take on this maddening assertion myself, but I've read too many rpg.net Exalted threads. When you've got fans telling other fans that their Abyssals campaign idea (which is fully supported by every damn book mentioning them) is "brining Exalted down to the level of D&D" (srsly wtf), it's obvious that this trend exists, even if it is a mostly online phenomenon.
Yes, and the "Exalted isn't a power game, its a game about dealing with the themes of having great power" quote is verbatim from RPG.net as well. There's a horde of evidence that there are in fact WW-Swine and that they do in fact have that attitude, at least in public.
But of course, this is all pointless because everyone knows this is true, and Maddman knows it as well as anyone. He's just trying to pretend not to in order to win an otherwise unwinnable argument.
RPGPundit
I don't doubt someone said that, just that its a predominant view among Exalted players. I think Exalted is a game about the theme of having great power, but its also about power gaming. I say Exalted is partially about releasing your inner 14 year old and going on about how TOTALLY AWESOME you are. :) Great fun.
Return of the Scarlet Empress / the Realm civil war book has been in the wings since 1e. Any Exalted fan who is surprised by its existence just hasn't been paying attention. I'm more surprised that it took them this long to get around to writing and publishing it.
I suspect it will be a de facto game-changer, even if WW claims that it doesn't change anything for sure, but that fans will react positively.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;337727I suspect it will be a de facto game-changer, even if WW claims that it doesn't change anything for sure, but that fans will react positively.
Really? All feelings about Exalted aside, I would say that this sort of thing rarely goes well. The anticipation and the gamers' imaginations of what "could" happen will almost always end up being cooler than the actual "happening" itself.
I give you as exhibit A: The Clone Wars.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;338015Really? All feelings about Exalted aside, I would say that this sort of thing rarely goes well. The anticipation and the gamers' imaginations of what "could" happen will almost always end up being cooler than the actual "happening" itself.
I give you as exhibit A: The Clone Wars.
RPGPundit
I suspect the book will be designed as a collection of verbose "What if?" pieces in typical WW style-over-substance. Fans of WW have shown over the years thats what they want, though.
I've been thinking about it, and at this point introducing a full-blown metaplot is probably the only thing that would get me interested in Exalted again. This Scarlet Empress book is the first one I've actually wanted to get in a long time. The metaplot stuff is also the only reason I got many of the later oWoD books. I wasn't willing to play with the awful rule system, but I soaked up the latest story bits like a sponge and loved it. It's one reason(not the only reason, nor the biggest) that I find the core nWoD games to be duller than dirt. Changeling and Geist have improved on this somewhat, but it might just be too little too late.
I'm still not getting why this means Exalted will die.
The game has already survived having the worst ruleset ever and a book based around confusing astrological bollocks. One book won't make a crap of difference.
Quote from: GeekEclectic;338320I've been thinking about it, and at this point introducing a full-blown metaplot is probably the only thing that would get me interested in Exalted again. This Scarlet Empress book is the first one I've actually wanted to get in a long time. The metaplot stuff is also the only reason I got many of the later oWoD books. I wasn't willing to play with the awful rule system, but I soaked up the latest story bits like a sponge and loved it. It's one reason(not the only reason, nor the biggest) that I find the core nWoD games to be duller than dirt. Changeling and Geist have improved on this somewhat, but it might just be too little too late.
Ah, so YOU were the problem!
The disease is inside you!
RPGPundit