Quote from: Shazbot79;337266"No...because Exalted is it's own entity and it doesn't NEED a D20 conversion"

Dude...yes it does.

I'm pretty sure they encountered less than impressive results with their early parallel GURPS releases for the WoD line.  I personally don't blame them for keeping the IP of their setting restricted to their house system, at least until they feel they've played out the potential for it.  Perhaps it is time to farm it out to a third party for an alternate treatment.

That said, and back to the OP, bringing the Scarlet Empress back as a "final flourish" to the game does rather undermine the notion that there's no metaplot to wrap up.

!i!

The problem with GURPS conversions... was the choice of GURPS. Seriously, the oWoD games were superhero games with eyeshadow, leather, and wangst; they should have gone with HERO.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;337323The problem with GURPS conversions... was the choice of GURPS. Seriously, the oWoD games were superhero games with eyeshadow, leather, and wangst; they should have gone with HERO.

Hero might have been a better fit, but Hero Games was wary of licenses at the time.

And SJG sought out WWG, from what I've read. (I was a GURPS player back then...)

I imagine that a very real problem, from the perspective of White Wolf, was brand dilution of their very popular game line.  I hate to parrot marketing-speak like that, but WoD was their company identity at the time (sorry Ars Magica), and I think it rather confused matters to have their company identity being associated with another company's game.  In that light, looking back at Shazbot's post above, I think the WW company line that Exalted was it's own entity was quite true -- it was a sort of transitional flagship game as WoD was on the wane.

!i!

Quote from: Seanchai;337287What are those like? The only thing I have of first edition is the core rulebook.

Seanchai

Time of Tumult had a couple of adventures in it.  One was a pretty neat adventure in which the PCs and some Dragon-Blooded end up in a haunted manse far in the North, and the other is a "save the princess" style adventure set in the West. The former starts off as a D&D-esque wilderness survival romp and then becomes a pseudo-horror drama.  The latter has stats for absolutely everything except the one entity the PCs will almost certainly fight.

Exalted: The Autochthonians had many broad suggestions for how a campaign involving the Autochthonian invasion of Creation could be run, with advice for how each type of Exalt (i.e. the PCs) could take center stage.

I believe Bastions of the North also had an adventure in it, but I did not read it.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;337303I'm pretty sure they encountered less than impressive results with their early parallel GURPS releases for the WoD line.  I personally don't blame them for keeping the IP of their setting restricted to their house system, at least until they feel they've played out the potential for it.  Perhaps it is time to farm it out to a third party for an alternate treatment.

That said, and back to the OP, bringing the Scarlet Empress back as a "final flourish" to the game does rather undermine the notion that there's no metaplot to wrap up.

!i!

I can understand wanting to keep your IP distinctive, particularly in a market that is competing with D&D.

However, I really think that Exalted needs a major mechanics enema.

Hmmm...wonder if anyone has thought to convert Exalted to Savage Worlds or Spirit of the Century rules?

Quote from: Ian Absentia;337218No shit, dude.  Was this a big mystery to you?  They made a game to suit their crowd.  WotC made a game to suit theirs.  Hell, you made a game to suit yours.  Here's your entree to make your next statement of the painfully obvious.

But I really have to hammer this nail down farther:  From the very outset, Exalted has been all about powergaming.  It was like they created an explosive, murderous playground for all of the powergamers who bloated the fandom of the World o' Darkness line.  You can get itchy over the advertising campaigns and individual fans on RPG.net all you want and go on about how they hurt your precious sensibilities, but you can't make this shit stick to the wall.

!i!

What the fuck is your point, dude?

You keep pretending like what I'm saying is "Exalted isn't a powergaming game, its a pretentious game", when I'm saying quite the opposite: its a game that lets PRETENTIOUS people powergame, and still feel superior about "how" they do it. Its EXTREME POWERGAMING, and its also EXTREMELY PRETENTIOUS.

"Oh yeah? Well... its also powergaming!" is not an adequate rebuttal to that statement in any universe.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Maddman;337219There's nothing wrong with dealing with themes.  

There is if you're just saying you're doing that, as a bold-faced lie meant to cover up that you're as much of a powergaming little munchkin as the worst D&D player, and you just want to keep being able to pretend that you're a special "artiste" who is vastly superior to the "unwashed masses".

Its kind of like if a European Anti-American Marxist was caught eating a hamburger that's really just McDonald's with another label, or if an environmentalist were to use a car that was labeled "green" but actually ran 2 miles to the gallon.

QuoteOld school D&D for instance has themes of exploration, the unknown, and the triumph of the civilized over the savage.  All games have themes.  I can't really imagine one without a theme.

Oh my, but if that were true then WW gamers wouldn't be any better than the "unwashed masses"?!! How could that be?

You should try telling that to your buddies on rpg.net who insist that D&D is just "mindless powergaming" while they talk about what city-destroying charms their Solar Exalt can combo up to use.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;337392What the fuck is your point, dude?

My point is that you clearly stated that WW pretended that Exalted wasn't "powergaming" when they clearly never did such a thing.  Now you're shifting your goalpost to cover your gaffe.  Pat yourself on the shoulder and take a victory lap.

!i!

I'm totally winning this thread.

Quote from: Aos;337225Yeah, but blurry porn is fucked up.

How can you tell when its all blurry?

Quote from: Aos;337407I'm totally winning this thread.

But only because I'm letting you.

!i!

Quote from: Shazbot79;337266Being a knuckle dragging, slack-jawed, beef-witted D&D powergamer alpha male jock myself, I always thought the idea of Exalted (energetic, high-flying, cinematic anime cheese-filled fantasy superheroics) was right up my alley.

It might have even supplanted D&D as my favorite game, if it wasn't for the dice pool mechanic.

Oh god, how I hate dice pool mechanics.

I remember someone asking White Wolf if they would ever do a D20 conversion of Exalted, to which one of their execs replied:

"No...because Exalted is it's own entity and it doesn't NEED a D20 conversion"

Dude...yes it does.

Well, everyone has different tastes.  You dislike dice pools.  I've come to dislike games without them, or at least games without success levels.  I don't want to just know if an action succeeds or fails, I want to know how well it succeeds, or how close it was to failing, or what have you.  Binary systems don't give me enough information.

Exalted's mechanics are a bear, I'll admit that.  However, they also do some interesting things in play that were not obvious on a first read.  I really wouldn't be interested in a conversion, though I do hope they simplify things further in the next edition.

Quote from: RPGPundit;337396Oh my, but if that were true then WW gamers wouldn't be any better than the "unwashed masses"?!! How could that be?

I find it hilarious that you think White Wolf gamers are some kind of elitist horde.  It really never stops being funny.

Most of the people I play with don't call themselves WW Gamers or D&D players.  They're gamers.  They have no problem pretending to be an elf on Mondays and pretending to be a vampire on Thursdays.  You've extracted one paragraph of an author trying to differentiate his game 15 years ago into an imagined conspiracy theory.

QuoteYou should try telling that to your buddies on rpg.net who insist that D&D is just "mindless powergaming" while they talk about what city-destroying charms their Solar Exalt can combo up to use.

RPGPundit

Yes, I'm high in the RPGnet hierarchy. :rolleyes:

Folks on RPGnet don't talk about d20/D&D much any more.  They have their own forum, on the rare occasion I do go over there I stay in RPG Open.  In truth I post here more than there.

Quote from: Maddman;337426I find it hilarious that you think White Wolf gamers are some kind of elitist horde.  It really never stops being funny.

I'd love to take on this maddening assertion myself, but I've read too many rpg.net Exalted threads.  When you've got fans telling other fans that their Abyssals campaign idea (which is fully supported by every damn book mentioning them) is "brining Exalted down to the level of D&D" (srsly wtf), it's obvious that this trend exists, even if it is a mostly online phenomenon.

Quote from: Shazbot79;337363I can understand wanting to keep your IP distinctive, particularly in a market that is competing with D&D.

I actually thought that exalted, with its ridiculous action and over-the-top magic would be a great fit for either a 3.5 or 4E conversion.

Quote from: Shazbot79;337363However, I really think that Exalted needs a major mechanics enema.

Indeed. Setting up a static defensive value instead of an active opposed roll removed half the dice rolling for an attack, and would be a friggin' great step forward if it weren't so bloody difficult to calculate on the fly (does my charm add to my pool that calculates my DV or to DV itself or...).

Similarly, the initiative tick system, while admirable in its effort to make combat more continuous and less discrete, is sorta defeated by the capability to "flurry" on the same initiative tick.

Quote from: Shazbot79;337363Hmmm...wonder if anyone has thought to convert Exalted to Savage Worlds or Spirit of the Century rules?

http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/wiki.pl?NPCNWO/SavageWorlds