So, they long-missing Scarlet Empress is coming back, in an act of the Metaplot the WW people keep swearing never happens in Exalted ( I continue to contend that they never got rid of metaplot, just turned it sideways, as it were).

What does this massive major event represent? Even some of the WW-swine are suggesting its a Shark-Jumping moment. I think that moment came and went quite some ways back.  WW's sales are so in the toilet, particularly for Exalted, that this is their last desperate death rattle, groaning and croaking trying to wheeze in just a little more air in the desperate struggle to escape from inevitable demise.

What do you think?

RPGPundit

Exalted isn't even a blip on my radar, much like the Palladium system. I won't even hear the death rattle nor notice when it is gone.

Quote from: RPGPundit;337015What do you think?

In context of the game, I don't like it. It was a big mystery. Leave it that way.

In terms of the line, I wonder if it doesn't signal the end...

Seanchai

The whole setting was predicated on her absence. Bringing her back changes everything. In publishing terms this would seem to be a good time to either wrap up or reboot the line. I don't know if WW has plans to do either.

The original late 3I setting of Traveller had two big secrets—the Droyne are the Ancients and the Aslan are not a major race. Those secrets could be revealed by the players and did not have a great effect on play opportunities afterward. The return of the Scarlet Empress seems more on par with MegaTraveller's civil war which showed up in every adventure. It will change the allegiance of every Exalted. It will change the character of the setting. This is the kind of metaplot i don't like to see imposed by the publisher. If an individual GM (with the consent of the group) wants to change the basic assumptions of an ongoing campaign, fine. I just don't like it imposed from outside the group. Sure you can ignore it, but it's still annoying.

Of course, i don't play Exalted. This is just an interesting example of line development to me. It is such a fundamental change, that it seems to signal either a wrap up or reboot. If WW doesn't do either, they're just being jerks.

My understanding is that it's a book of possibilities, not actual metaplot stuff that will have any bearing on any books that may be published afterward. 'course it could end up kind of like Time of Judgment.

How long does it take for a setting to be considered abandoned and open to the public? Exalted with a little cleaning up and a system that doesn't suck would be pretty tempting.

Quote from: Gordon Horne;337033The whole setting was predicated on her absence. Bringing her back changes everything.

The Exalted themselves change everything. That's the problem with Exalted. The nature of the PC's rewrites the rulebook, the history and the setting every day.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;337036The Exalted themselves change everything. That's the problem with Exalted. The nature of the PC's rewrites the rulebook, the history and the setting every day.

Polishing off the old chestnut, it's arguable that this is a feature, not a bug.

That said, hunh.  Part of the appeal of the game was the plethora of mysteries scattered across the ridiculously-scaled map.  Of course, they started crimping off many of those mysteries with each of the 1st edition fat-splats they released.  I got the impression that 2nd edition engaged in nailing things down even further.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;337035How long does it take for a setting to be considered abandoned and open to the public? Exalted with a little cleaning up and a system that doesn't suck would be pretty tempting.

There are a number of hacks already out there, the favorite of mine being Bruce Ferrie's conversion for HeroQuest.  It'd be nice to see a complete and official adaptation.

!i!

Not likely. Exalted's death knell would be a 3rd edition that doesn't jettison the Storyteller System and a fair number of hubris-ridden writers.

Where is the proof that WW sales or Exalted sales are "in the toilet"?   The same source that keeps saying that D&D 4e hasn't sold any copies even though bookstores and game stores keep magically restocking them?

I would not be surprised WW is struggling.   Every game company is struggling in this recession, but I wonder about pronouncements that WW is doing worse compared to the others.

Oddly, all the talk about games being recession-proof or RPGs doing well in a recession has turned out to be sad bullshit.  If anything, the recession has been about "playing with the toys you already own"

Exalted 1e was great fun.  I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.  

The Empress coming back is both a good cap for 2e and radically alters the setting for the inevitable coming of Exalted 3e.   Hopefully, the 3e system will be more streamlined.

Quote from: Spinachcat;337046Exalted 1e was great fun.  I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.  

Sigh... the label generates posts- like yours, for example. That is the entire point of it- in this case- anyway.
The thing that astounds me is that this far in posters as seemingly sophisticated and intelligent as yourself are still rising to the bait.

Like all really good trolls, the pundit mixes statements that he actually means with silly posts engineered to create controversy.
Controversy=posts.

Well Trolled, Pundit.

Quote from: Spinachcat;337046Exalted 1e was great fun.  I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.

It could be argued that White Wolf were swine well before there even was a Forge. Or maybe swine precursors. Their older products especially dripped with that kind of hubris.

That said, my only real problems with Exalted are A) the horrid system, and B) their need to sexualize everything. It's annoying.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;337036The Exalted themselves change everything. That's the problem with Exalted. The nature of the PC's rewrites the rulebook, the history and the setting every day.

That's more or less what I mean by "metaplot by the backdoor". The setting basically gets changed with every "splatbook" in such a radical way that you have to buy all the splatbooks if the next one is going to be useful.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Seanchai;337025In context of the game, I don't like it. It was a big mystery. Leave it that way.

In terms of the line, I wonder if it doesn't signal the end...

Seanchai

I totally agree with the first part.
For the second, though, this is a big mega-adventure, not a regular sourcebook. They've said that future books won't include this as having happened, implying that there are future books to come (and I think the 2e Alchemicals book will be coming out after it.)

But eh. Time will tell.

Quote from: Spinachcat;337046Where is the proof that WW sales or Exalted sales are "in the toilet"?   The same source that keeps saying that D&D 4e hasn't sold any copies even though bookstores and game stores keep magically restocking them?

There seems to be some pretty solid evidence that WW's share of the market has been on a death spiral for many years now, to the point that they are no longer in any meaningful way the "number 2"; they are now about as significant as any of the other "second tier companies". Will they fall further still? I don't know, but the point is that this is already a pretty significant decline from when they were a serious competitor to D&D.

QuoteI would not be surprised WW is struggling.   Every game company is struggling in this recession, but I wonder about pronouncements that WW is doing worse compared to the others.

They were in serious decline long before the economy went to shit.

QuoteExalted 1e was great fun.  I don't get the "swine" label for a completely traditional RPG where you play fantasy superheroes.  

It was like Bravo-channel "Porn for pretentious people". It tried to pretend it wasn't rampant powergaming, so that WW-swine could powergame while still turning up their noses at D&D.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;337071It was like Bravo-channel "Porn for pretentious people". It tried to pretend it wasn't rampant powergaming, so that WW-swine could powergame while still turning up their noses at D&D.

RPGPundit

I agree. There's always been a strong "do as I say (in the fluff text), not as I do (in the actual game design, superpowers, splatbooks etc)" vibe from White Wolf. It's a fundamentally disingenuous way to talk about gaming, as if some of these guys/designers actually love gaming for what it actually is, cheetos and all, but don't want to admit it, to rather compare themselves to modern storytellers, poets and intellectuals. It's bullshit, but it's part of the identity of the products at this point, so the new writers, who might write completely differently for other games, still follow this trend of bullshit today.