Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 01:09:36 PM

I've never heard of a jedi's mind itself stopping slugs/lasers besides using the force to push 'em away or halt their momentum and making 'em drop to the floor, That's a cool bit of lore!

No no, that's not the lore!  I'm saying, if someone in the writer's room had said "I want a stormtrooper with a science fiction shotgun to shoot at Luke", Lucas would have said "sounds great, how are we gonna do the special effect where he stops all the pellets with his mind".  I'm also saying that, the tricks we see Jedi use are the ones that they use because they are effective, not because they went to the back of the book and read a bunch of powers that are only effective if the bad guys are dipshits.  If shotguns (which do exist in some fashion) were anti-Jedi weapons, then everyone would have them- especially the Sith, and those imperial guard guys with the fetish outfits and the indigo electric whips.

In terms of "what is a cool weapon that could mess up a Jedi"- taking your question seriously from a tactical perspective- I'd say this:
You could have troops whose weapons are disguised with just a rag or towel.  This would prevent the Jedi from seeing what it was at a glance.  Each weapon could be designed to be a bit different in terms of requiring a Jedi to do something different to avoid it.  Then, most importantly, all of these troops would be trained in some type of mindfulness techniques that makes it a bit more difficult to predict their actions with the force.

This concept would:
1)- Play into the established meta-lore about the force, and Jedi.
2)- Be legitimately scary with the primitively cloaked weapons and a bit alien by bringing in some kind of philosophy to a fight that is supposed to be about that
3)- Not be a rock-paper-scissors thing
4)- Not be a "why didn't they think of that" sort of thing that makes everyone in the established content look dumb for not thinking of it.

QuoteI think escapism in the face of adversity is a detriment

I mean, no argument in principle.  In practice, well, here I am playing video games and roleplaying with my evenings....

Quote from: Venka on May 08, 2023, 01:29:37 PM

Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 01:09:36 PM

I've never heard of a jedi's mind itself stopping slugs/lasers besides using the force to push 'em away or halt their momentum and making 'em drop to the floor, That's a cool bit of lore!

No no, that's not the lore!  I'm saying, if someone in the writer's room had said "I want a stormtrooper with a science fiction shotgun to shoot at Luke", Lucas would have said "sounds great, how are we gonna do the special effect where he stops all the pellets with his mind".  I'm also saying that, the tricks we see Jedi use are the ones that they use because they are effective, not because they went to the back of the book and read a bunch of powers that are only effective if the bad guys are dipshits.  If shotguns (which do exist in some fashion) were anti-Jedi weapons, then everyone would have them- especially the Sith, and those imperial guard guys with the fetish outfits and the indigo electric whips.

In terms of "what is a cool weapon that could mess up a Jedi"- taking your question seriously from a tactical perspective- I'd say this:
You could have troops whose weapons are disguised with just a rag or towel.  This would prevent the Jedi from seeing what it was at a glance.  Each weapon could be designed to be a bit different in terms of requiring a Jedi to do something different to avoid it.  Then, most importantly, all of these troops would be trained in some type of mindfulness techniques that makes it a bit more difficult to predict their actions with the force.

This concept would:
1)- Play into the established meta-lore about the force, and Jedi.
2)- Be legitimately scary with the primitively cloaked weapons and a bit alien by bringing in some kind of philosophy to a fight that is supposed to be about that
3)- Not be a rock-paper-scissors thing
4)- Not be a "why didn't they think of that" sort of thing that makes everyone in the established content look dumb for not thinking of it.

QuoteI think escapism in the face of adversity is a detriment

I mean, no argument in principle.  In practice, well, here I am playing video games and roleplaying with my evenings....

That's just writer bias and doing whimsical things to entertain the audience, like the Christmas special; whole lot better than sticking to unfun lore/retcons in a setting with express purpose to bring joy and happiness to boring evenings for folks who have -nothing/can't think of anything better to do with their time. Then again old-production and new production of SW is very different, crews and ideals and yadadada. Anyway that's a good mindset to think more about the fiction you read!

Camouflage and Discretion Yes! The broth thickens! Have shotgun look like a rank-and-file laser rifle? Bingo! Confusion!

Alas, the poisons of hypocrisy and procrastination have embedded itself into my veins as well! Ahhhhhh!

Recognization is the first step to Remedy, tHaNkS AA mEeTiNgS No bash against anyone who does something to stem an addiction tho, I think finding strength in one's self or not starting at all is the way to go instead of relying on strangers with agendas and rackets to run, or if you are in an established meeting with strangers better yet analyze and observe the snakes there and use it to fuel your own understanding, Re-use Re-purpose; not to say the folks who set it up don't have good intentions and not to say everyone there is after your proverbial gizzard but stay aware when it happens. But I've never been there so I shouldn't be on this high-horse.

Edit: broke up a paragraph

Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
So I'm thinking the empire send a small team of specialists with Slugthrowers with cortosis-coated buckshot with the biggest pellets reasonably possible (regular firearms as opposed to laser weapons since they hit with more force and are harder to see, and cortosis coating adding to that force) in with a regular array of troopers that're expected to come up against jedi. The cortosis balls could be heavily padded or rubberized too, in the case of Darth Vader wanting the heroes taken back to him alive like in the trilogy.

I hadn't known about cortosis before, but after checking with a quick web search (ref), it sounds like cortosis is way too expensive to use in disposable ammunition - which is what you said.

I'd also question the premise some. History-wise, the Empire was quite effective in wiping out the Jedi with the tools they had. Sure, a few survived, but they weren't a significant problem for many years.

In terms of strict tactics, shielded droidekas were pretty good against them along with grenades/explosions. The biggest problem with an elite biological kill squad is their being mind-controlled or thrown about.

I'd probably go for a low yield static field that disrupts the containment bottle on the lightsabre.  Something more like a grenade or claymore.  Then the force can tell them to turn off their lightsabre or die in the explosion and my storm troopers can shoot them.

A biological weapon, either virus or bacteria, that feeds on midichlorians.

You guys aren't thinking like the Empire. The answer is clear.

If you're the Empire and you know a Jedi is somewhere in the city, you bombard the city until its nothing but molten glass.

You have plenty more cities and very few remaining Jedi.

Plus, your subjects knowing you'll glass an entire city to take out a Jedi means that many subjects will turn on the Jedi to try and prevent it happening to their city and any moral Jedi would avoid large population areas lest they be responsible for the Empire destroying it to get at them.

Rule through fear. It's the Imperial way.

Quote from: Chris24601 on May 08, 2023, 02:59:52 PM
You guys aren't thinking like the Empire. The answer is clear.

If you're the Empire and you know a Jedi is somewhere in the city, you bombard the city until its nothing but molten glass.

The Death Star laser is a far better sledgehammer to crack that particular nut.

Cortosis weave rope.

Hey, it almost worked for Boba Fett!

I'd invent T.V. news, and make sure every outlet put out regular news about how evil Jedi are. When the Jedi are hiding in a cave on Tatooine, or the swamps of Dagoba, they're neutralized.

You'll note that Luke is only able to hurt the Empire when the Emperor lets him enter his throne room, with no guards. Even then it's being a son that turns Vader, not being a Jedi.

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 08, 2023, 06:31:52 PM
I'd invent T.V. news, and make sure every outlet put out regular news about how evil Jedi are. When the Jedi are hiding in a cave on Tatooine, or the swamps of Dagoba, they're neutralized.

I don't know if it survived the destruction wrought by KK, but in the EU timeline, the Holonet and many of the subspace radio feeder channels going into it were nationalized by the Empire in order to create their own history of what happened during the Clone Wars, the Jedi "Rebellion", and every major conflict since then - most of which were blamed on Seperatist hold-outs and Jedi remnants. Only oral histories and folk tales recall the Jedi as even remotely good.

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 08, 2023, 07:16:14 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on May 08, 2023, 06:31:52 PM
I'd invent T.V. news, and make sure every outlet put out regular news about how evil Jedi are. When the Jedi are hiding in a cave on Tatooine, or the swamps of Dagoba, they're neutralized.

I don't know if it survived the destruction wrought by KK, but in the EU timeline, the Holonet and many of the subspace radio feeder channels going into it were nationalized by the Empire in order to create their own history of what happened during the Clone Wars, the Jedi "Rebellion", and every major conflict since then - most of which were blamed on Seperatist hold-outs and Jedi remnants. Only oral histories and folk tales recall the Jedi as even remotely good.

And it drove the last Jedi in to hiding on the fringes and not bothering anyone. So I'm a genius.

Directly firing any weapon at a Jedi seems to be playing to their strengths. The optimal solution is an area-effect attack that catches the Jedi inside it.

Thrown grenades aren't the answer because even non-Jedi have a chance (not great, but a chance) of being able to throw them back. Factor in the Force and they're even more likely to be thrown back and kill you than blaster bolts. What would be needed is something more akin to a small scale artillery shell- something that travels at bullet speeds and explodes on impact. And which has a blast radius large enough that you can fire to the side of a Jedi and still catch them inside it.

My proposed anti-Jedi solution is to fit an underbarrel launcher similar to the 40mm ones modern troops have and then fire a Thermal Detonator that explodes on impact from these.


Another question- Stormtrooper helmets are fully enclosing and look like they have respirators built in. How good are they at filtering chemical warfare agents? Release clouds of poison gas as you advance and keep the Jedi pinned down as they drift forward.


Finally, there's the simple option that leverages the fact you're an evil empire that doesn't place any value on sapient life even when it wears your uniform. Send waves of Stormtroopers in to fight the Jedi in the standard manner and while they're being massacred target heavy (or orbital) artillery on the battle zone. Those guys are fighting a Jedi and so all going to die anyway...


The best thing about solutions like this is that they're very effective and easy to implement- but also tactics that can't be used in every single situation. The first two require things that aren't standard issue and the last has even more potential for collateral damage than the others.

Another thing to consider is that with Imperial politics being akin to that of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia then it's possible that the various elements of the Imperial forces might actually want the others to fail. It might be a brilliant plan that's certain to defeat a Jedi- but if the one who came up with it is a political rival? Having the Jedi keep roaming Imperial space might damage your career less than having the plan to kill him work...

Didn't George Lucas sorta answer this in Attack of the Clones? The Emperor's tactic for the Jedi was overwhelming force. They can deflect a laser, but can they deflect 500 at once? Order 66 worked as individual jedi's had to defend themselves (and yes taken by surprise as well) against 100s of people all attacking at once.

So I think I would RD some kind of droid swarm. A bunch of flying robots all controlled via a single user. They fly apart, surround and shoot from different angles, maybe even coordinate with other swarms run by other soldiers. Think of it kind of like a power armour, but instead of the armour being attached to the soldier, it is a cloud of semi-autonomous floating guns. More the better, smaller the better.

Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 04:05:55 AM
Didn't George Lucas sorta answer this in Attack of the Clones? The Emperor's tactic for the Jedi was overwhelming force. They can deflect a laser, but can they deflect 500 at once? Order 66 worked as individual jedi's had to defend themselves (and yes taken by surprise as well) against 100s of people all attacking at once.

Jango Fett fought Obi-Wan Kenobi (at the height of his power) to a standoff. Jango Fett also killed a Jedi with a simple holdout blaster. (And then got beheaded by a Jedi.)

A sufficently skilled non-Jedi can kill a Jedi.

The answer is, as always "Whatever the plot says".

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 09, 2023, 04:57:52 AM

Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 04:05:55 AM
Didn't George Lucas sorta answer this in Attack of the Clones? The Emperor's tactic for the Jedi was overwhelming force. They can deflect a laser, but can they deflect 500 at once? Order 66 worked as individual jedi's had to defend themselves (and yes taken by surprise as well) against 100s of people all attacking at once.

Jango Fett fought Obi-Wan Kenobi (at the height of his power) to a standoff. Jango Fett also killed a Jedi with a simple holdout blaster. (And then got beheaded by a Jedi.)

A sufficently skilled non-Jedi can kill a Jedi.

The answer is, as always "Whatever the plot says".

truth... but vs one jedi. in a 1v1.. I mean we never saw General Grievous kill all the Jedi he had sabres for... but I "think" if I was a R&D weapons guy I would be looking for a way to make a non-skilled recruit a threat, and also a way to fight an "army" of jedi.