How would you equip troopers of the Galactic Empire against Jedi?
I was thinking about one of the better COD's (Infinite Warfare) and remembered it had the coolest doo-hickey you could slap on a cyber-shotgun, A reflex sight that would analyze an enemy and alter the trajectory of each pellet that it would every major joint/body-area resulting in a one-shot; Kicker was it was slow compared to the speed of combat, But is was still a slick sci-fi concept!
I want to know: what weapon/gizmo comes to your head when it comes to dispatching/capturing those glow-stick wielders? It doesn't have to be a resource intensive super weapon either but those are also welcome! It could be better tactics for normal troopers on the battlefield to utilize to gear they already have, unorthodox usage of the environment around them to use to their advantage or using improvised weapons that have a greater effect on jedi rather than conventional laser-arms or maybe a gizmo/weapon that's more economical but still an improvement to those troopers that have them.
I posted this thinking throwing a wrench in the works for my Jedi players would shift them out of the limelight and have the soldiers/hotshots of the group use their tactics and superior laser-weaponry to win the day instead of "Hokey religions and ancient weapons". Not to say hamstringing the Jedi players is good, I'm doing this because I had a more sith-centric warehouse raid already play out in the earlier sessions where the soldiers/hotshots played more of a support/sideline role in combat.
I've attached the image of the Cyber-DooHickey I mentioned.
What I'm thinking would equal the odds against those robe-wearing spinning tops!
Thinking about it more I thought that reflex could be a natural jedi killer if the empire ever implemented it; seeing as it's targeting all the main centers of movement for a jedi all at the same time, even one hit could take a jedi out of fighting-shape since agility is one of their main defenses against blaster bolts.
I didn't forget about deflecting either, As I see it jedi's deflecting blaster bolts is the same as a kid hopped up on his mother's bath salts whacking away wiffle-balls his buddies are tossing at him and thinking he's "Fucking Invincible!!!" with the flimsy wiffle-bat he thinks is his own personal hand of god.
It's not about if the jedi can hear/see it coming and hit it; it's about what he's expecting and what he'll get. So I'm thinking instead of having more kids toss wiffle balls at him and end up with more kiddoes getting knocked out with wiffle-balls at the end of the day how about I find the son of the professional pitcher of the cul-de-sac and 1 or two of his buddies and give them 5 proper bean-bags to pelt at the munchkin/brat/half-pint at a time while he's distracted hitting all the wiffle balls. He won't see/hear it coming or be prepared for the force of the bean-bags, even if he's dealt with them before he'll have have to keep dodging up until he retreats out of the area. Either way a win for the tupperware wiffle-ball kids!
So I'm thinking the empire send a small team of specialists with Slugthrowers with cortosis-coated buckshot with the biggest pellets reasonably possible (regular firearms as opposed to laser weapons since they hit with more force and are harder to see, and cortosis coating adding to that force) in with a regular array of troopers that're expected to come up against jedi. The cortosis balls could be heavily padded or rubberized too, in the case of Darth Vader wanting the heroes taken back to him alive like in the trilogy.
But then again sourcing the specialist operatives, manufacturing the specialist ammunition, and developing the high-tech reflex sight would be expensive material-wise, manpower-wise, and research-wise so this'd be in an extraordinary situation or commissioned by a higher command or something. Maybe I'll make a fan-comic about it, seems like a neat plot.
I've attached an illustration of the Wiffle-Maniac just in case he comes to your neighborhood, So you'll know what to expect.
Edit: Replaced "High" with "Hopped up" in the wiffle ball scenario, For added dramatic effect.
Jedi can be easily defeated with shotguns or flamethrowers.
Jedi are just a myth. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion does you no credit! *akh*
Force adjacent abilities exploited.
1. Jedi Assassins, comprised of regular people who can detect the force but not use it. The feeling gets stronger based on proximity.
2. Force dampeners, can quiet down the force or block it. Again cannot use the force.
3. Force amplifiers, the opposite from the above. Could be used to augment allied Jedi's or to overload enemy ones.
Technology
1. Instead of blasters, literal lasers that stay on as the button is pushed.
2. Synchronized Blasters. Only fire when five or more triggers from nearby blasters are pushed and held at the same time. Uses radio frequency. This is similar to what hedge was saying about shotguns. The idea would be five+ shots coming at the same time from different angles.
By no means am I a Star Wars guru. Some of this likely has been done way better in the past. Have only ever seen the movies and played a few of the video games over the years.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on May 08, 2023, 12:01:30 PM
Jedi can be easily defeated with shotguns or flamethrowers.
Amateur jedi 100%, as they're more likely to charge a corner not expecting it or staying in close combat while those effective weapons are still in play, not retreating for a better striking position or surprise maneuver.
For skilled jedi with combat experience or heightened senses supplied to them by the force or training I'd assume they'd either expect it coming since they're more aware of their weaknesses/limits of their fighting style and the oppositions tools/tactics of dealing with it and either avoid that fight/wait for a more opportune moment using stealth or reinforcements/Or taunt the enemy into a precarious position; Or use specialized tactics like using a force push to direct the blast or plume back the moment the clicking of the trigger is heard (force senses) or moving erratically causing panic and moving progressively closer to the enemy backline encouraging panic-induced friendly-fire.
I was thinking the cortosis-slugthrower-scattergun would make those counter-tactics much more difficult because of the tracking optic causing a missed deflect to cause major movement impairment, The heavier payload punishing an improper deflect more harshly, and the specialist troops using better spacing/positioning/shot-placement/trigger discipline than regular troopers and causing the jedi to flee instead of fight, conserving trooper manpower and potentially driving away the jedi from a place of importance. It's still difficult by all means, But the purpose was to ease the difficulty a bit against competent counter-tactics.
Edit: added "Tactics" to skilled jedi sentence.
Quote from: S'mon on May 08, 2023, 12:27:23 PM
Jedi are just a myth. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion does you no credit! *akh*
The republic has seeded the fear of jedi into my mind to cause doubt and unwillingness to take action! Of course, on what world can green spacemen less than half the size of a man go against the might of stormtroopers! wielding light-sticks no less! Rebel stories to be sure...
Quote from: FingerRod on May 08, 2023, 12:30:10 PM
Force adjacent abilities exploited.
1. Jedi Assassins, comprised of regular people who can detect the force but not use it. The feeling gets stronger based on proximity.
2. Force dampeners, can quiet down the force or block it. Again cannot use the force.
3. Force amplifiers, the opposite from the above. Could be used to augment allied Jedi's or to overload enemy ones.
Technology
1. Instead of blasters, literal lasers that stay on as the button is pushed.
2. Synchronized Blasters. Only fire when five or more triggers from nearby blasters are pushed and held at the same time. Uses radio frequency. This is similar to what hedge was saying about shotguns. The idea would be five+ shots coming at the same time from different angles.
By no means am I a Star Wars guru. Some of this likely has been done way better in the past. Have only ever seen the movies and played a few of the video games over the years.
All of those points are leagues less production intensive than what I thought and are way easier to pop into a researcher's/field-commander's head and can be used to great effect by conventional troopers/amateur-jedi without much increase in resources needed, Good stuff!
Unsophisticated ideas from an unsophisticated mind.
Please let us know what you end up doing and how your players react.
Quote from: FingerRod on May 08, 2023, 12:46:03 PM
Unsophisticated ideas from an unsophisticated mind.
Please let us know what you end up doing and how your players react.
Definitely! If I remember soon enough, I've still got threads I haven't replied to in a week...
Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
I was thinking about one of the better COD's (Infinite Warfare) and remembered it had the coolest doo-hickey you could slap on a cyber-shotgun, A reflex sight that would analyze an enemy and alter the trajectory of each pellet that it would every major joint/body-area resulting in a one-shot; Kicker was it was slow compared to the speed of combat, But is was still a slick sci-fi concept!
I clicked on this ready to see a shotgun post and get mad, and boy was I not disappointed!
Lets be clear:
Jedi can stop every pellet of a shotgun with their minds.No, we've never seen this. Yes, there's old Classic Canon content from the EU where "scatterguns" are used to prevent Jedi from doing this. None of that matters. The reason Jedi can stop blasters with their lightsabers is not because of plasma or whatever. There's a bunch of plasma bolts flying around? Jedi have an answer to that. If everyone started using shotguns, Jedi would have an answer to that too. The Jedi aren't some one trick pony, they can see the future and do magical things by being allies with the core life force of the universe. There's no combination of technology and force that they wouldn't use should that be what they need, and the fact that no one has made shotguns or similar types of things, despite actually being Jedi hunters, should show that.
To answer your question, the way you stop Jedi is with overwhelming firepower, betrayal, subversion, and lies. This is what the dark side uses in the story.
I'm actually kind of mad about this! Man it feels great to be mad about something silly for a change.
I agree about the shotgun thing. No reason to think they can't stop a grouping of relatively slow moving projectiles. Flamethrowers seem a better bet, since that requires them to use energy absorption not kinetic deflection. Ideally both at the same time to 'force' (geddit) them to use two different powers at once.
Quote from: Venka on May 08, 2023, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
I was thinking about one of the better COD's (Infinite Warfare) and remembered it had the coolest doo-hickey you could slap on a cyber-shotgun, A reflex sight that would analyze an enemy and alter the trajectory of each pellet that it would every major joint/body-area resulting in a one-shot; Kicker was it was slow compared to the speed of combat, But is was still a slick sci-fi concept!
I clicked on this ready to see a shotgun post and get mad, and boy was I not disappointed!
Lets be clear: Jedi can stop every pellet of a shotgun with their minds.
No, we've never seen this. Yes, there's old Classic Canon content from the EU where "scatterguns" are used to prevent Jedi from doing this. None of that matters. The reason Jedi can stop blasters with their lightsabers is not because of plasma or whatever. There's a bunch of plasma bolts flying around? Jedi have an answer to that. If everyone started using shotguns, Jedi would have an answer to that too. The Jedi aren't some one trick pony, they can see the future and do magical things by being allies with the core life force of the universe. There's no combination of technology and force that they wouldn't use should that be what they need, and the fact that no one has made shotguns or similar types of things, despite actually being Jedi hunters, should show that.
To answer your question, the way you stop Jedi is with overwhelming firepower, betrayal, subversion, and lies. This is what the dark side uses in the story.
I'm actually kind of mad about this! Man it feels great to be mad about something silly for a change.
I've never heard of a jedi's mind itself stopping slugs/lasers besides using the force to push 'em away or halt their momentum and making 'em drop to the floor, That's a cool bit of lore!
Using strategies that don't involve troop tactics/war/R&D is cool! To beat a pigeon-hole, think outside the box or just different to your opposition! generalized Wisdom/Charisma over specialized Intelligence!
Of course, arguing about silly things and making a fuss over nothing important for entertainment is fun!; The spirit of gathering good buddies for a round TTRPG's I think, and the more of the spirit of this website a decade ago. Also it detracts from disappointing things happening in the world, but I think escapism in the face of adversity is a detriment, Then again I shouldn't scorn myself for having fun!
Edit: Also, Honesty on the internet is dangerous! Beware kiddoes! Do as I say not as I doinpvaiepoiwgj[dijgaio[jegw
a professional opinion for you:
Quote from: S'mon on May 08, 2023, 01:06:20 PM
I agree about the shotgun thing. No reason to think they can't stop a grouping of relatively slow moving projectiles. Flamethrowers seem a better bet, since that requires them to use energy absorption not kinetic deflection. Ideally both at the same time to 'force' (geddit) them to use two different powers at once.
High-velocity and heavy payload don't go hand-in-hand without equally heavy effort, fair shake
Flamethrower attachment, Bingo! Burn them and burn out their space-magic too!
In a less logistically sound idea, make the traditionalists mad/make R&D go broke and develop lightsaber bayonets!
hahaha ;D
Quote from: Klava on May 08, 2023, 01:10:21 PM
a professional opinion for you:
KOTOR is cool, KOTOR writing is cool, and this lore-post is cool! Kudos!
Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 01:09:36 PM
I've never heard of a jedi's mind itself stopping slugs/lasers besides using the force to push 'em away or halt their momentum and making 'em drop to the floor, That's a cool bit of lore!
No no, that's not the lore! I'm saying, if someone in the writer's room had said "I want a stormtrooper with a science fiction shotgun to shoot at Luke", Lucas would have said "sounds great, how are we gonna do the special effect where he stops all the pellets with his mind". I'm also saying that, the tricks we see Jedi use are the ones that they use because they are effective, not because they went to the back of the book and read a bunch of powers that are only effective if the bad guys are dipshits. If shotguns (which do exist in some fashion) were anti-Jedi weapons, then everyone would have them- especially the Sith, and those imperial guard guys with the fetish outfits and the indigo electric whips.
In terms of "what is a cool weapon that could mess up a Jedi"- taking your question seriously from a tactical perspective- I'd say this:
You could have troops whose weapons are disguised with just a rag or towel. This would prevent the Jedi from seeing what it was at a glance. Each weapon could be designed to be a bit different in terms of requiring a Jedi to do something different to avoid it. Then, most importantly, all of these troops would be trained in some type of mindfulness techniques that makes it
a bit more difficult to predict their actions with the force.
This concept would:
1)- Play into the established meta-lore about the force, and Jedi.
2)- Be legitimately scary with the primitively cloaked weapons and a bit alien by bringing in some kind of philosophy to a fight that is supposed to be about that
3)- Not be a rock-paper-scissors thing
4)- Not be a "why didn't they think of that" sort of thing that makes everyone in the established content look dumb for not thinking of it.
QuoteI think escapism in the face of adversity is a detriment
I mean, no argument in principle. In practice, well, here I am playing video games and roleplaying with my evenings....
Quote from: Venka on May 08, 2023, 01:29:37 PM
Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 01:09:36 PM
I've never heard of a jedi's mind itself stopping slugs/lasers besides using the force to push 'em away or halt their momentum and making 'em drop to the floor, That's a cool bit of lore!
No no, that's not the lore! I'm saying, if someone in the writer's room had said "I want a stormtrooper with a science fiction shotgun to shoot at Luke", Lucas would have said "sounds great, how are we gonna do the special effect where he stops all the pellets with his mind". I'm also saying that, the tricks we see Jedi use are the ones that they use because they are effective, not because they went to the back of the book and read a bunch of powers that are only effective if the bad guys are dipshits. If shotguns (which do exist in some fashion) were anti-Jedi weapons, then everyone would have them- especially the Sith, and those imperial guard guys with the fetish outfits and the indigo electric whips.
In terms of "what is a cool weapon that could mess up a Jedi"- taking your question seriously from a tactical perspective- I'd say this:
You could have troops whose weapons are disguised with just a rag or towel. This would prevent the Jedi from seeing what it was at a glance. Each weapon could be designed to be a bit different in terms of requiring a Jedi to do something different to avoid it. Then, most importantly, all of these troops would be trained in some type of mindfulness techniques that makes it a bit more difficult to predict their actions with the force.
This concept would:
1)- Play into the established meta-lore about the force, and Jedi.
2)- Be legitimately scary with the primitively cloaked weapons and a bit alien by bringing in some kind of philosophy to a fight that is supposed to be about that
3)- Not be a rock-paper-scissors thing
4)- Not be a "why didn't they think of that" sort of thing that makes everyone in the established content look dumb for not thinking of it.
QuoteI think escapism in the face of adversity is a detriment
I mean, no argument in principle. In practice, well, here I am playing video games and roleplaying with my evenings....
That's just writer bias and doing whimsical things to entertain the audience, like the Christmas special; whole lot better than sticking to unfun lore/retcons in a setting with express purpose to bring joy and happiness to boring evenings for folks who have -nothing/can't think of anything better to do with their time. Then again old-production and new production of SW is very different, crews and ideals and yadadada. Anyway that's a good mindset to think more about the fiction you read!
Camouflage and Discretion Yes! The broth thickens! Have shotgun look like a rank-and-file laser rifle? Bingo! Confusion!
Alas, the poisons of hypocrisy and procrastination have embedded itself into my veins as well! Ahhhhhh!
Recognization is the first step to Remedy,
tHaNkS AA mEeTiNgS No bash against anyone who does something to stem an addiction tho, I think finding strength in one's self or not starting at all is the way to go instead of relying on strangers with agendas and rackets to run, or if you are in an established meeting with strangers better yet analyze and observe the snakes there and use it to fuel your own understanding, Re-use Re-purpose; not to say the folks who set it up don't have good intentions and not to say everyone there is after your proverbial gizzard but stay aware when it happens. But I've never been there so I shouldn't be on this high-horse.
Edit: broke up a paragraph
Quote from: GiantToenail on May 08, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
So I'm thinking the empire send a small team of specialists with Slugthrowers with cortosis-coated buckshot with the biggest pellets reasonably possible (regular firearms as opposed to laser weapons since they hit with more force and are harder to see, and cortosis coating adding to that force) in with a regular array of troopers that're expected to come up against jedi. The cortosis balls could be heavily padded or rubberized too, in the case of Darth Vader wanting the heroes taken back to him alive like in the trilogy.
I hadn't known about cortosis before, but after checking with a quick web search (ref) (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cortosis), it sounds like cortosis is way too expensive to use in disposable ammunition - which is what you said.
I'd also question the premise some. History-wise, the Empire was quite effective in wiping out the Jedi with the tools they had. Sure, a few survived, but they weren't a significant problem for many years.
In terms of strict tactics, shielded droidekas were pretty good against them along with grenades/explosions. The biggest problem with an elite biological kill squad is their being mind-controlled or thrown about.
I'd probably go for a low yield static field that disrupts the containment bottle on the lightsabre. Something more like a grenade or claymore. Then the force can tell them to turn off their lightsabre or die in the explosion and my storm troopers can shoot them.
A biological weapon, either virus or bacteria, that feeds on midichlorians.
You guys aren't thinking like the Empire. The answer is clear.
If you're the Empire and you know a Jedi is somewhere in the city, you bombard the city until its nothing but molten glass.
You have plenty more cities and very few remaining Jedi.
Plus, your subjects knowing you'll glass an entire city to take out a Jedi means that many subjects will turn on the Jedi to try and prevent it happening to their city and any moral Jedi would avoid large population areas lest they be responsible for the Empire destroying it to get at them.
Rule through fear. It's the Imperial way.
Quote from: Chris24601 on May 08, 2023, 02:59:52 PM
You guys aren't thinking like the Empire. The answer is clear.
If you're the Empire and you know a Jedi is somewhere in the city, you bombard the city until its nothing but molten glass.
The Death Star laser is a far better sledgehammer to crack that particular nut.
Cortosis weave rope.
Hey, it almost worked for Boba Fett!
I'd invent T.V. news, and make sure every outlet put out regular news about how evil Jedi are. When the Jedi are hiding in a cave on Tatooine, or the swamps of Dagoba, they're neutralized.
You'll note that Luke is only able to hurt the Empire when the Emperor lets him enter his throne room, with no guards. Even then it's being a son that turns Vader, not being a Jedi.
Quote from: Grognard GM on May 08, 2023, 06:31:52 PM
I'd invent T.V. news, and make sure every outlet put out regular news about how evil Jedi are. When the Jedi are hiding in a cave on Tatooine, or the swamps of Dagoba, they're neutralized.
I don't know if it survived the destruction wrought by KK, but in the EU timeline, the Holonet and many of the subspace radio feeder channels going into it were nationalized by the Empire in order to create their own history of what happened during the Clone Wars, the Jedi "Rebellion", and every major conflict since then - most of which were blamed on Seperatist hold-outs and Jedi remnants. Only oral histories and folk tales recall the Jedi as even remotely good.
Quote from: jeff37923 on May 08, 2023, 07:16:14 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on May 08, 2023, 06:31:52 PM
I'd invent T.V. news, and make sure every outlet put out regular news about how evil Jedi are. When the Jedi are hiding in a cave on Tatooine, or the swamps of Dagoba, they're neutralized.
I don't know if it survived the destruction wrought by KK, but in the EU timeline, the Holonet and many of the subspace radio feeder channels going into it were nationalized by the Empire in order to create their own history of what happened during the Clone Wars, the Jedi "Rebellion", and every major conflict since then - most of which were blamed on Seperatist hold-outs and Jedi remnants. Only oral histories and folk tales recall the Jedi as even remotely good.
And it drove the last Jedi in to hiding on the fringes and not bothering anyone. So I'm a genius.
Directly firing any weapon at a Jedi seems to be playing to their strengths. The optimal solution is an area-effect attack that catches the Jedi inside it.
Thrown grenades aren't the answer because even non-Jedi have a chance (not great, but a chance) of being able to throw them back. Factor in the Force and they're even more likely to be thrown back and kill you than blaster bolts. What would be needed is something more akin to a small scale artillery shell- something that travels at bullet speeds and explodes on impact. And which has a blast radius large enough that you can fire to the side of a Jedi and still catch them inside it.
My proposed anti-Jedi solution is to fit an underbarrel launcher similar to the 40mm ones modern troops have and then fire a Thermal Detonator that explodes on impact from these.
Another question- Stormtrooper helmets are fully enclosing and look like they have respirators built in. How good are they at filtering chemical warfare agents? Release clouds of poison gas as you advance and keep the Jedi pinned down as they drift forward.
Finally, there's the simple option that leverages the fact you're an evil empire that doesn't place any value on sapient life even when it wears your uniform. Send waves of Stormtroopers in to fight the Jedi in the standard manner and while they're being massacred target heavy (or orbital) artillery on the battle zone. Those guys are fighting a Jedi and so all going to die anyway...
The best thing about solutions like this is that they're very effective and easy to implement- but also tactics that can't be used in every single situation. The first two require things that aren't standard issue and the last has even more potential for collateral damage than the others.
Another thing to consider is that with Imperial politics being akin to that of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia then it's possible that the various elements of the Imperial forces might actually want the others to fail. It might be a brilliant plan that's certain to defeat a Jedi- but if the one who came up with it is a political rival? Having the Jedi keep roaming Imperial space might damage your career less than having the plan to kill him work...
Didn't George Lucas sorta answer this in Attack of the Clones? The Emperor's tactic for the Jedi was overwhelming force. They can deflect a laser, but can they deflect 500 at once? Order 66 worked as individual jedi's had to defend themselves (and yes taken by surprise as well) against 100s of people all attacking at once.
So I think I would RD some kind of droid swarm. A bunch of flying robots all controlled via a single user. They fly apart, surround and shoot from different angles, maybe even coordinate with other swarms run by other soldiers. Think of it kind of like a power armour, but instead of the armour being attached to the soldier, it is a cloud of semi-autonomous floating guns. More the better, smaller the better.
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 04:05:55 AM
Didn't George Lucas sorta answer this in Attack of the Clones? The Emperor's tactic for the Jedi was overwhelming force. They can deflect a laser, but can they deflect 500 at once? Order 66 worked as individual jedi's had to defend themselves (and yes taken by surprise as well) against 100s of people all attacking at once.
Jango Fett fought Obi-Wan Kenobi (at the height of his power) to a standoff. Jango Fett also killed a Jedi with a simple holdout blaster. (And then got beheaded by a Jedi.)
A sufficently skilled non-Jedi can kill a Jedi.
The answer is, as always "Whatever the plot says".
Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 09, 2023, 04:57:52 AM
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 04:05:55 AM
Didn't George Lucas sorta answer this in Attack of the Clones? The Emperor's tactic for the Jedi was overwhelming force. They can deflect a laser, but can they deflect 500 at once? Order 66 worked as individual jedi's had to defend themselves (and yes taken by surprise as well) against 100s of people all attacking at once.
Jango Fett fought Obi-Wan Kenobi (at the height of his power) to a standoff. Jango Fett also killed a Jedi with a simple holdout blaster. (And then got beheaded by a Jedi.)
A sufficently skilled non-Jedi can kill a Jedi.
The answer is, as always "Whatever the plot says".
truth... but vs one jedi. in a 1v1.. I mean we never saw General Grievous kill all the Jedi he had sabres for... but I "think" if I was a R&D weapons guy I would be looking for a way to make a non-skilled recruit a threat, and also a way to fight an "army" of jedi.
Quote from: S'mon on May 08, 2023, 12:27:23 PM
Jedi are just a myth. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion does you no credit! *akh*
Hahaha!
nerve gas.
Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 09, 2023, 08:15:41 AMnerve gas.
This was tried on Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn in The Phantom Menace... they just did a magic breath hold.. The editing in that film is so terrible it looks like they open the door instantly, but I suspect that is an editor snafu. I assume they held it shut a decent amount of time.
This is the problem with modern star wars, (by modern I mean Jedi+). Jedi are just full on wizards now and are bound by nothing. They used to be Samurai with some subtle powers.. but now they can basically do anything.
That is the problem with "Whatever the plot says". As after a while of people adding to things, with some being less skilled writers than others, it just blows out into the unwatchable shit show it is now.
Still, canonically.... Nerve Gas shouldn't't work... as we have seen that not work in film and it was even a Lucas film.. so pretty hard to argue it is not "true".
<deleted>
double post for some reason
Acid spray. Stormtrooper armour could be treated (they'd be yellow or blue or whatever, not white) to be immune and just hose the jedi down with acid that melts their skin and bones into a sludge.
Some kind of sonic attack that deafens (and Stormtroopers could have ear defenders in their otherwise useless helmets).
Fly a speeder overhead and drop dozens of thermal detonators on the site then pick through the remains when it's all cooled down. Jedi might dodge one but not all.
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 08:26:23 AM
Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 09, 2023, 08:15:41 AMnerve gas.
This was tried on Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn in The Phantom Menace... they just did a magic breath hold.. The editing in that film is so terrible it looks like they open the door instantly, but I suspect that is an editor snafu. I assume they held it shut a decent amount of time.
This is the problem with modern star wars, (by modern I mean Jedi+). Jedi are just full on wizards now and are bound by nothing. They used to be Samurai with some subtle powers.. but now they can basically do anything....
Still, canonically.... Nerve Gas shouldn't't work... as we have seen that not work in film and it was even a Lucas film.. so pretty hard to argue it is not "true".
Do you have to breathe nerve gas in to be be hurt by it? I'm not an expert on war crimes, but I thought there were some kinds you could absorb through the skin.
Generally, you hit on the same kind of thing I was thinking: It depends on what iteration of the Force the game is replicating and what the rules are for it.
Based on what we see in the OT, you could come to the conclusion that against anything other than blasters or melee weapons, Jedi aren't any more resilient than anyone else. The Prequels turned up the superhero factor a bit, especially in the athletics and precognition departments. It's been ages since I touched anything associated with the EU, but I get the impression it suffered from pretty egregious power creep.
I would assume that anyone writing a Star Wars roleplaying game would want to de-power the Jedi down to a roughly OT level, in order to provide some semblance of game balance. If that's the case, the OT implies that effective use of the Force requires a significant degree of focus and/or peace of mind. I'd attack that. Maybe you could use cacophonous noises, strobing lights, hallucinogens, etc, or something like the Scarecrow's fear toxin. Anything that disturbs the Jedi's mental or emotional balance and interferes with their ability to connect with the Force. You could force concentration checks on your Jedi players to retain the use of their abilities. That seems like it would be more interesting than just an "anti-Force" zone, while still being a nerf which specifically affects your Jedi players while giving your non-Jedi a chance to shine.
I'm pretty sure man-portable nuclear devices (or the equivalent) is the answer. You just need one Stormtrooper to live long enough to trigger a device with enough power to devastate everything within a sufficient radius to ensure no Jedi could possibly escape. Unless they've developed force teleportation since last time I paid attention to Star Wars...
I mean, in the OT Jedi weren't "samurai with tricks". Vader, a fallen Jedi in all versions (even when his first name was Darth), was always very powerful, and it was the second movie where he just catches blaster bolts and then grabs the blaster from across the room. Sure, he's one of the most powerful Jedi ever, but, Jedi have always been able to be full wizards if they are exceptional.
This is why almost no weapon trick would work. There's no rule saying a Jedi can block a blaster with their hand because it's a blaster, or plasma works that way. Rocket launcher? A million rocks? Pellet gun? Laser? No reason to assume a Jedi can't stop any of those things. If you enumerate a bunch of powers in the back of a handbook and make them pick, sure, you can metagame and choose some attack they don't have a defense for, or simply choose an attack they don't all train in because it's rare (no one expects the cortosis boomerang dipped in ysalamir butthole secretions).
But that's not a good way to design a game, and it's not a good treatment of Jedi.
When Jedi are killed or in great danger due to a physical attack, it's because they either are attacked with incredible force, incredible skills, or incredible numbers. We have no reason to believe a Jedi could stop the death star's laser, even though a hand laser pointed at them by some guy would be no threat. It's too much power. We see Jedi taken out by dark side opponents, sometimes 1v1, because they are outskilled (especially a problem for the many Jedi who aren't warriors in the first place and might be ok against a mugger but are totally outclassed against some bloody-blade-licking demon-headed stereotype). And of course, we see them taken out by large numbers- clone troopers and even enough retarded roger-rogerbots can kill them.
I think if the idea is "how do we handle them" from an R&D perspective, the goal is going to be to come up with some plausible training regime or weapon that grants an advantage in some way. That's why I suggested the bit about the small squad with their weapon types obscured at the beginning of the fight, who are trained in some kind of no-mind technique or whatever. If your system has hit points and the Jedi's defenses are modeled by being difficult to hit (a high AC or high target number on a skill check), then this would grant a plus against such a defense. If it's modeled by the attacker having to pass a percentile check to have a chance of hitting at all, then the percentile check would be higher. If it's modeled by the Jedi themselves rolling against a target number based on the skill of the attacker, then you just increase that value. Finally, if it's something where the Jedi spends a resource to have a guaranteed amount of ability to ignore attacks, you increase the resource cost of that in some fashion.
What you definitely should not do is engage in rock-paper-scissors. The Jedi aren't Mewtwo, hoping that no one invents Tyrannitar or whatever, they don't have hard counters or anti-magic fields (said collectable lizards aside, that was a bad part of an otherwise good series, required by the writer to allow for a non force user to be a threat). You can add all these things (and at various points they have showed up!), but that misses the point.
Quote from: rkhigdon on May 09, 2023, 01:13:36 PM
Unless they've developed force teleportation since last time I paid attention to Star Wars...
Create Force Storms, page 72,
Dark Empire Sourcebook WEG 1993
Quote from: Venka on May 09, 2023, 01:32:10 PM
This is why almost no weapon trick would work.
And yet. We See Jedi unable to block Stun blasters. Avoid physical projectiles (slug throwers, rockets, darts, etc) and avoid spray weapons (such as flame throwers) rather then trying to block them. The idea that Jedi can block everything with a saber or any other part of their body is absurd. Hell, there's media where a Jedi tried to block a turbo laser only to be blasted apart.
I think it's fair to say that there's a lack of evidence that Jedi CAN block any form of weapon. Just as there's a significant amount of evidence of Jedi avoiding multiple kinds of weapons using other forces powers such as their insane mobility or in the case of slower moving objects, stopping them with the force.
This all said. I do think one could assume that a powerful Jedi could make something of a near barrier to block some objects. Afterall, we've seen similar feats with collapsing rubble being stopped. But it's the case of we've always seen such situations where the Jedi is having to concentrate heavily and even powerful Jedi struggle with this. Multiple dudes firing machine guns at different angles is alot more to focus on then just right above you.
So yea. I think there's a clear precedent that Jedi are unable to block everything that comes at them. Espically unarmed.
That said. I agree with your premise about "it shouldn't be a game of rock paper scissors" as I agree that makes things less fun. it's why I specifically mentioned how we see Jedi handle weapons they cannot block. They dodge and approach the situation differently. Even a basic Jedi can promptly just lift up some heavy cover and promptly yeet it at the flame thrower guy(s) and bam. They are no longer in fear of being torched.
But just having something that goes "lmao. You dead" isn't fun. And I do agree with that sentiment.
To awnser the post question staring with gizmos and do hikies. Microwave weapons or Sonic weapons. They are up their with the experimental tech the empire sometimes makes to deal with specific problems (Mandos, Jedi... Annoying native species). You even have an entire world and technology that made one such useful weapon, the Geonosians. Less high tech but still fairly useful, Carbonite weapons or foam weapons. You are forcing the Jedi to dodge these weapons and thus can herd them to a better location and if you get a solid hit on them. Great. Flame throwers and chemical guns fall under a similar area as well.
As for tactics. Sword and Board. Just with a shield and blaster instead. Slowly advance and shoot with your blasters. You have shields. Why be afraid? Only issue is the Jedi will probably charge you, so you'd need and awnser to that. Which is where ectro weapons and vibro weapons come into play. Mixed with better training and you can have squads of specialist using fairly easy to get imperial equipment that can give the average Jedi some trouble.
As for actual research. Capturing Jedi alive and finding out why they can use the force would probably be my go to project. Because if one can understand the force, figure out how it's manipulated. Then one may be able to do some serious damage. Mind you, this is a theme that pops up alot in the various star wars stories.
Quote from: Kahoona on May 09, 2023, 11:02:58 PMAs for actual research. Capturing Jedi alive and finding out why they can use the force would probably be my go to project. Because if one can understand the force, figure out how it's manipulated. Then one may be able to do some serious damage. Mind you, this is a theme that pops up alot in the various star wars stories.
This is one of the things I hate in modern fantasy. The attempt to make everything so dull and mundane. No the force isn't a mystical and spiritual power, it is a bunch of microscopic life forms living in your blood. Vampires are not magical curses that damn your soul, they are a blood diseases you can treat with medicine. Zombies are just a virus. So boring.
The force used to be like a cross between Samurai and Wuxia. As in, it was a mystical power that came from enlightenment. No more able to be studied than someone's belief in God. No. The force isn't an ethereal connection between all living things that surrounds us and penetrates us, binding the galaxy together. One that a monk can attune himself to through discipline and study of self.. it is actually a bunch of microscopic aliens in your blood that cause immaculate conceptions, can be isolated in test tubes and injected into clone troopers, and instead of being a subtle extension of will it is a fucking wizard throwing out the "magic can do anything" crap.
Star Wars used to be awesome. Instead, the force is this and the empire lasted 23 years. What a mess.
Quote from: Kahoona on May 09, 2023, 11:02:58 PMMicrowave weapons or Sonic weapons.
This is a good one. Some kind of radiation weapon. Can't be deflected. Can move through solid matter. Seems like a pretty strong idea to kill a space wizard... I guess it would depend on how quick the lethality is. We know from the prequels, they can "force run" now.. so unless they die superfast the shooter will probably die. Though maybe they only need to be tainted. Medical Science is pretty inconsistent in Star Wars, I mean Padmé dies from "loosing the will to live"... might be possible to do so muchy raidtion damage they can not be healed in that tube thing.
Quote from: ForgottenF on May 09, 2023, 11:07:04 AMDo you have to breathe nerve gas in to be be hurt by it? I'm not an expert on war crimes, but I thought there were some kinds you could absorb through the skin.
Yeah. You are right.
I am not a weapons expert but I have seen Nick Cage in "The Rock" a bunch of times, and he does an entire speech about how Sarin Gas is absorbed through the skin....
Freeze the Jedi bank accounts. Phantom Menace taught us that the Jedi don't know shit about money. In fact, a good chunk of that film was the direct result of Obiwan and Chee-gong being broke-ass drifters. Put the clamp down on their finances and the Jedi will be stuck bartering for everything. Eventually the merchants, debt collectors, and pissed-off prostitutes will do the dirty work for you.
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 08:26:23 AM
Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 09, 2023, 08:15:41 AMnerve gas.
This was tried on Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn in The Phantom Menace... they just did a magic breath hold.. The editing in that film is so terrible it looks like they open the door instantly, but I suspect that is an editor snafu. I assume they held it shut a decent amount of time.
This is the problem with modern star wars, (by modern I mean Jedi+). Jedi are just full on wizards now and are bound by nothing. They used to be Samurai with some subtle powers.. but now they can basically do anything.
That is the problem with "Whatever the plot says". As after a while of people adding to things, with some being less skilled writers than others, it just blows out into the unwatchable shit show it is now.
Still, canonically.... Nerve Gas shouldn't't work... as we have seen that not work in film and it was even a Lucas film.. so pretty hard to argue it is not "true".
Lucas did power up the Jedi in the prequels. There's the scene where Dooku approaches Obi-Wan and Anakin when they're rescuing the Chancellor, and Dooku does a super-flip over the railing. In the OT, he would have just walked down the goddamn stairs. I'm like, well, Jedi are super duper and can do anything and flip and jump everywhere. Maybe there really is no defense against Jedi. Send in an orbital bombardment, and they'll just yank the ship out of orbit. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLBo-t9AFo)
Give up guys. Jedi are unbeatable.
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 11:53:22 PM
Quote from: Kahoona on May 09, 2023, 11:02:58 PMAs for actual research. Capturing Jedi alive and finding out why they can use the force would probably be my go to project. Because if one can understand the force, figure out how it's manipulated. Then one may be able to do some serious damage. Mind you, this is a theme that pops up alot in the various star wars stories.
This is one of the things I hate in modern fantasy. The attempt to make everything so dull and mundane. No the force isn't a mystical and spiritual power, it is a bunch of microscopic life forms living in your blood. Vampires are not magical curses that damn your soul, they are a blood diseases you can treat with medicine. Zombies are just a virus. So boring.
Eh. I think you can pull it off right. Let's go with what you are saying, that Jedi are space wizards and that the Force is a mystical force controlled by maybe something, maybe nothing. Left up to interpretation.
Now que evil science man trying to figure this shit out. Because in our universe of laws and science their must be a rational reason for why one person can use the force over another. Otherwise... It would simply be madness.
You can maintain the mystic and spirituality of the Force and the Jedi while at the same time having a character obsessed with breaking it down into mathematics. You can make a really compelling story with this simple concept in fact. You have an obsessive villian who is going to further and further extremes to understand something they cannot comprehend and/or see because they are not compatible (assuming we are going the old full out spiritual rout of the force). Maybe this science person does figure something out and uses it to their advantage. Maybe they are unable to make any real progress and fail again and again resulting in further drastic means to uncover the truth.
Regardless of the decision made. You can have a wild story on your hands and you can go with a "the force is a measurable power within the galaxy that follows tangible rules" or "the force is a Mystic power that connects the galaxy in a level of harmony more akin to fate then a rule of science".
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 11:53:22 PM
Quote from: Kahoona on May 09, 2023, 11:02:58 PMMicrowave weapons or Sonic weapons.
This is a good one. Some kind of radiation weapon. Can't be deflected. Can move through solid matter. Seems like a pretty strong idea to kill a space wizard... I guess it would depend on how quick the lethality is. We know from the prequels, they can "force run" now.. so unless they die superfast the shooter will probably die. Though maybe they only need to be tainted. Medical Science is pretty inconsistent in Star Wars, I mean Padmé dies from "loosing the will to live"... might be possible to do so muchy raidtion damage they can not be healed in that tube thing.
I'd imagine unless it was a *very* powerful weapon you'd need to hit a Jedi multiple times to bring them down. But that all depends on what kind of tech exists to make something like this, I still reckon however that a Jedi in a 1v1 would come out on top against a hand held one of these everytime.
Well what I had in mind was an aerosol type contact poison, easily mitigable by the right wardrobe of course...but then i recall reading somewhere that a basic jedi exercise is to stopper a bottle and then use the force to pass air into and out of the bottle through the cork or wall or whatever one molecule at a time or something...if they can do that it would be a marvel power stunt type roll i imagine to "wall of tele-force" barrier against my stinking cloud spray can attack.
So mother whats her face on dathomir in the one clone wars episode was killing dooku from half a galaxy away with force voodoo magic in the form of a curse...maybe try that? can we get that shit into a missile grenade or beam? if not can we at least make its employment include a pew-pew sound?
Quote from: Kahoona on May 10, 2023, 12:58:05 AM
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 11:53:22 PM
Quote from: Kahoona on May 09, 2023, 11:02:58 PMAs for actual research. Capturing Jedi alive and finding out why they can use the force would probably be my go to project. Because if one can understand the force, figure out how it's manipulated. Then one may be able to do some serious damage. Mind you, this is a theme that pops up alot in the various star wars stories.
This is one of the things I hate in modern fantasy. The attempt to make everything so dull and mundane. No the force isn't a mystical and spiritual power, it is a bunch of microscopic life forms living in your blood. Vampires are not magical curses that damn your soul, they are a blood diseases you can treat with medicine. Zombies are just a virus. So boring.
Eh. I think you can pull it off right. Let's go with what you are saying, that Jedi are space wizards and that the Force is a mystical force controlled by maybe something, maybe nothing. Left up to interpretation.
Now que evil science man trying to figure this shit out. Because in our universe of laws and science their must be a rational reason for why one person can use the force over another. Otherwise... It would simply be madness.
Obi-Wan answered this all the way back in ANH (before the dark times... before the prequels).
The answer originally was that ANYONE could be a Jedi... if they believed and trusted in the power of The Force. He further implied that Luck and Destiny were just subtle movements of The Force (and that Han was only lucky because the Force was with him, even if he didn't believe in it).
"Strong in the Force" meant someone open to it or through which the Force was moving.
In the OT, unless you were using The Force to sense the strength of The Force in others, the only thing separating Obi-Wan from Han Solo was training and belief. You may as well try to figure out how to scientifically detect and wield the power of engineers or physicists or doctors.
But of course third parties flanderized it with the concept of Force Sensitivity being a specific trait required to use The Force first rearing it's head in the WEG rpg (though to be fair to them, anyone could buy the Force Sensitive trait with XP).
And of course Timothy Zahn, foundation of the EU, borrowed heavily from the WEG material to flesh out the story... and so Force Sensitivity as a physical trait (instead of a mindset) made it's way into the broader EU.
And by the time Lucas went back to do the PT all this broader EU material and internet nerd debates over the nature of the Force were a thing he chose to speak to in the most annoying and unclear way possible (unclear because a lot of people think Midochlorians ARE the Force when they're actually supposed to just be an interface between humans and The Force in the same way a keyboard isn't a computer, just the interface with it).
It's not like Lucas had a real plan for all this (ideas yes, but the idea that the PTs were always going to be what they were is laughable... Leia wasn't always the sister and Han was too popular in the merchandising to kill off as planned) so expecting consistency is silly.
At best you can pick an era of development (OT, Bantam, PT, Del Rey, Disney) and run with its rules.
Quote from: Chris24601 on May 10, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
But of course third parties flanderized it with the concept of Force Sensitivity being a specific trait required to use The Force first rearing it's head in the WEG rpg (though to be fair to them, anyone could buy the Force Sensitive trait with XP).
And of course Timothy Zahn, foundation of the EU, borrowed heavily from the WEG material to flesh out the story... and so Force Sensitivity as a physical trait (instead of a mindset) made it's way into the broader EU.
Zahn's approach to the Force is pretty vague, although he allows it to be biological in some cases--vornskrs hunting through the Force, for example. (He also has C'Baoth start Jedi training after finishing
university--interesting divergence that's barely noticed there.) The idea that it can be measured by mechanical means really shows up in the Jedi Academy Trilogy, where the heroes come across old Imperial devices that can distinguish Force-sensitive and non-sensitive individuals.
Better armor. Imperial armor doesn't protect against anything.
I'd get a cabal of trusted Imperials and create a virus that targeted Midicholrians. Rid the galaxy of the stupid Force once and for all. I mean, just think of the devastation over eons due to these freaks of nature on both sides.
On that note, I'm convinced that Lucas came up with the idea of Midichlorians while sitting on the toilet flipping through an issue of Newsweek. Any first-year biology major can tell you that Mitochondria are thought to have been, at one time, a separate organism (or, rather, genome) that integrated into what would become our (and other) genomes. Mitochondria... Midichlorians... wipe, flush, write...
Edit: ooh ooh!! Bait them into a huge arena a la Genosis... and actually have Dooku and Fett participate in the battle. Oh, and increase the droids by at least half. That should do it. Of course, Force users have shown they aren't too swift.
Quote from: FASAfan on May 10, 2023, 03:25:08 PM
I'd get a cabal of trusted Imperials and create a virus that targeted Midicholrians. Rid the galaxy of the stupid Force once and for all. I mean, just think of the devastation over eons due to these freaks of nature on both sides.
On that note, I'm convinced that Lucas came up with the idea of Midichlorians while sitting on the toilet flipping through an issue of Newsweek. Any first-year biology major can tell you that Mitochondria are thought to have been, at one time, a separate organism (or, rather, genome) that integrated into what would become our (and other) genomes. Mitochondria... Midichlorians... wipe, flush, write...
Mitochondria originating as a bacterium getting eaten, but not killed, by an archaea is really fucking cool and proves that truth is stranger than fiction. Midichlorians are boring compared to that.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on May 10, 2023, 09:49:29 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on May 10, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
But of course third parties flanderized it with the concept of Force Sensitivity being a specific trait required to use The Force first rearing it's head in the WEG rpg (though to be fair to them, anyone could buy the Force Sensitive trait with XP).
And of course Timothy Zahn, foundation of the EU, borrowed heavily from the WEG material to flesh out the story... and so Force Sensitivity as a physical trait (instead of a mindset) made it's way into the broader EU.
Zahn's approach to the Force is pretty vague, although he allows it to be biological in some cases--vornskrs hunting through the Force, for example. (He also has C'Baoth start Jedi training after finishing university--interesting divergence that's barely noticed there.) The idea that it can be measured by mechanical means really shows up in the Jedi Academy Trilogy, where the heroes come across old Imperial devices that can distinguish Force-sensitive and non-sensitive individuals.
I think we can all agree that Kevin J. Anderson makes most things worse.
Indeed, I have no idea who made the decision, but prior to this trilogy the canonicity of Dark Empire (written the same year "Heir to the Empire" released) relative to the novels was questionable (requiring quite a bit of "squint canon" and reversals of character growth to make both fit in the same universe).
That was also the Trilogy when Jedi started pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky because hack authors couldn't imagine anything other than raw physicality making the Death Star insignificant compared to the Force* and took "size matters not" to its literal extreme.
* The power of The Force took out the Death Star with a snub fighter and couple torpedoes. When you've got effectively "the power of plot" on your side there's nothing more powerful.
Set for stun.
Stun Jedi with big blue energy ring that doesn't seem like it would be blockable.
Set for kill and mag dump into stunned Jedi.
The defense for the Jedi would be to dodge the stun ring, which does seem slower than a blaster bolt. But if the Jedi is "locked" into Parry Everything mode, they might not be able to switch tactics instantly.
And for GMs, they have the option to omit step 3 and have the Jedi character get captured, which does happen occasionally in the Clone Wars cartoon.
Quote from: Summon666 on May 09, 2023, 11:53:22 PM
This is one of the things I hate in modern fantasy. The attempt to make everything so dull and mundane. No the force isn't a mystical and spiritual power, it is a bunch of microscopic life forms living in your blood. Vampires are not magical curses that damn your soul, they are a blood diseases you can treat with medicine. Zombies are just a virus. So boring.
The force used to be like a cross between Samurai and Wuxia. As in, it was a mystical power that came from enlightenment. No more able to be studied than someone's belief in God. No. The force isn't an ethereal connection between all living things that surrounds us and penetrates us, binding the galaxy together. One that a monk can attune himself to through discipline and study of self.. it is actually a bunch of microscopic aliens in your blood that cause immaculate conceptions, can be isolated in test tubes and injected into clone troopers, and instead of being a subtle extension of will it is a fucking wizard throwing out the "magic can do anything" crap.
Quote from: Chris24601 on May 10, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
The answer originally was that ANYONE could be a Jedi... if they believed and trusted in the power of The Force. He further implied that Luck and Destiny were just subtle movements of The Force (and that Han was only lucky because the Force was with him, even if he didn't believe in it).
"Strong in the Force" meant someone open to it or through which the Force was moving.
In the OT, unless you were using The Force to sense the strength of The Force in others, the only thing separating Obi-Wan from Han Solo was training and belief. You may as well try to figure out how to scientifically detect and wield the power of engineers or physicists or doctors.
I agree that the Force lost a ton of its mystique in the prequels especially as well as other interpretations. My old essay on scientific magic systems is applicable to how to interpret the Force.
https://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/magic/antiscience.html
I would push back a little in that the original trilogy did imply that strength in the Force is something inherited by parentage. Luke originally didn't seem to have particularly strong belief or spirituality, and had extremely little training. His strength with the Force was implied to be an inborn quality.
Still, in the OT one could pretend that it was more a question of destiny -- or that Luke's parentage gave him some spiritual quality like openness that could also be learned.
Plasma shotguns.
Preferably full auto.
Make Jedi go splat. Not hard.
Quote from: Jaeger on May 11, 2023, 12:08:02 AM
Plasma shotguns.
Preferably full auto.
Make Jedi go splat. Not hard.
"Wood-chipper beats everything" - Dean Winchester
I'd have a big net. But invisible. And electric. You'd throw it on a Jedi and it's invisible so they can't see it. And then they are electrified. I know all the Star Wars so I know this hasn't been done before.
Stormtroopers need laser sights on their blasters.
Mind you, if I was that other =][=mperium's r&d I'd either use Culexis Assassins or Grey Knights with frangible Psycannon rounds and Nemesis Force Halberds. Sisters of Silence might also serve but they're mainly immune to psychers and undetectable with psychic powers. Their Armaments are pretty much standard issue stuff like bolt guns, swords, and flamers. I wonder if they get power swords. They'd at least be able to parry a light sabre due to their power field. Maybe I'm over thinking it.
"I sense a disturbance in the force, something very bad is coming."