Quote from: David Johansen on June 17, 2024, 10:11:45 AMAs far as propaganda goes it's time to paint "THE KING IS A FINK!" on the old castle walls again.

The return of the Lone Haranguer!

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 20, 2024, 10:51:36 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on June 17, 2024, 10:19:42 PM"Tales from the Loop" ... took the time and effort to publish the known lie in their section on 80s lore that Reagan negotiated with Iran to wait until his inauguration day to release the Carter-era hostages.  This is a historic lie started by democrats in congress and disproved way back in the 90s.  But it was done so subtly and nonchalantly, among real 80s cultural history, that it reads like it's just a basic fact.

And exploiting the great loophole of fantasy games and literature, if anyone makes enough of a big deal about this the creators always have the option to say, "Well, no, but so what? Maybe in our game's history that's what did happen. It's just a game, why freak out about it?"

Jim Treacher called this the "Clown Nose On Clown Nose Off" effect...

Yeah, Tales From the Loop already set up their alibi set up in case they get called directly on it.  On the cover, they wrote, "the 1980s that never was".  Although everything else in their history of the 80s was real.

Validating one's ideology through fiction is inherently masturbatory, as it's simply a matter of conceiving of situations which justify it. And games are one of the worst forms of propaganda because of their inherent reliance on player agency. Meanwhile Rich Evans of #RedLetterMedia pointed out how #Robocop and #Ghostbusters had opposing ideologies regarding capitalism yet great movies nevertheless. So you can produce and enjoy media which runs counter to your ideology, and I actually believe not being able to is a mental illness.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on June 17, 2024, 11:05:30 AMHaving druids coming into towns and giving sex change to children in a village that looks like a Target commercial (black halfling dad, white half orc mom, asian dwarf son and hispanic lizadman daughter) with no explanation how all these disparate species are living together let alone how a halfling could mate to an orc and give a lizardman, but something like this if I told you twitter was pushing, could you say definitively that never happened, you can't.  That's propaganda.

Accepting this nonsensical state of affairs requires the surrender of all rational faculties. There's no cause and effect, no past nor future to consider, merely an eternal now which exists without reason.

Quote from: jhkim on June 17, 2024, 07:13:00 PMWhat springs to mind for me is, say, _Paranoia_ (1984). It's explicitly a humorous satire of Cold-War-era U.S. nationalism. The Computer purports to hunt down "commie mutant traitors" who are the enemy but in reality, it is the insane totalitarian ruler.

I think they're explicitly real-world political satire, but I wouldn't call them propaganda.

Meanwhile the lead designer (who has me blocked) is concerned about #Paranoia being used for the 'wrong' kind of satire, which pushes it more towards the propaganda end.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 20, 2024, 10:51:36 AMAnd exploiting the great loophole of fantasy games and literature, if anyone makes enough of a big deal about this the creators always have the option to say, "Well, no, but so what? Maybe in our game's history that's what did happen. It's just a game, why freak out about it?"

Jim Treacher called this the "Clown Nose On Clown Nose Off" effect, when criticizing Jon Stewart back in 2010; it's a way to immunize your messages against counterargument or criticism by saying they're only a joke or a fantasy when challenged, while fully expecting (and intending) that those messages be believed and taken seriously by those already inclined to agree.

This kind of thinking quickly leads to everything being treated as advocacy when there's plenty of absurdity on all sides which needs to be called out. So I really don't care what Jon's political beliefs are, or how anyone else interprets his words, only that the sarcasm rings true. Meanwhile he points out how many will support him right up until he calls 'their' guy out regardless. Because the last thing ideologues can take is a joke.