Just to be clear, this is the version you wanna get: http://www.studio2publishing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25_75_129&products_id=3614

The Deluxe Explorer's Edition is the same price as the original Explorer's Edition, and with way more stuff jammed into it.

A couple of other things that are gripes/things people complain about that I've seen:
*Stats not affecting skills (except via cost reduction or Edge prerequisites). I can see some benefits to this - you can make a character who's the 'Ancient Master' with d4 Agility and d12 Fighting, say - but some players didn't like this. The first houserule the players proposed was of course to roll [Stat+Skill], Cortex style, but I opposed this on the grounds that doing everything with one dice was important to combat speed - as well as making stats too cheap.
Eventually we compromised on a rule where a d4 stat gave a -1 skill modifier, whereas a d10 or d12 stat gave a +1.

*all the non-wild-card monsters being dropped with 1 Wound. Initially I tried just making big monsters Wild Cards, but eventually I started just giving them multiple Wounds (instead of higher Toughness) and having them become shaken at half their Wounds.  I wasn't that concerned with big monsters being "up, down, or off the table" since the PCs weren't generally fighting a lot of them at once.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;579865A couple of other things that are gripes/things people complain about that I've seen:
*Stats not affecting skills (except via cost reduction or Edge prerequisites).(...)
*all the non-wild-card monsters being dropped with 1 Wound.(...)  eventually I started just giving them multiple Wounds (instead of higher  Toughness) and having them become shaken at half their  Wounds.(...)

I doubt these will be an issue for my group. Good idea for fixing monsters being too weak, should it pose a problem. I'll keep that in mind.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;579856Just to be clear, this is the version you wanna get: http://www.studio2publishing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25_75_129&products_id=3614

The Deluxe Explorer's Edition is the same price as the original Explorer's Edition, and with way more stuff jammed into it.

Yes, that's the one I'm going for.

Solomon Kane and Deadlands look fun. I'd probably use Deadlands as a weird west toolkit rather than using the "canon". Solomon Kane seems like it could easily be used to run a game in a setting based on the Colonial Gothic sourcebooks.

Any reason why SW is particularly suitable for a Cthulhu game? After this thread I'm not so sure about Realms of Cthulhu anymore. What in particular sets the experience apart from a classic Call of Cthulhu game?

Any other SW settings people here are fond of?

Quote from: HombreLoboDomesticado;579871I doubt these will be an issue for my group. Good idea for fixing monsters being too weak, should it pose a problem. I'll keep that in mind.


Yes, that's the one I'm going for.

Solomon Kane and Deadlands look fun. I'd probably use Deadlands as a weird west toolkit rather than using the "canon". Solomon Kane seems like it could easily be used to run a game in a setting based on the Colonial Gothic sourcebooks.

Any reason why SW is particularly suitable for a Cthulhu game? After this thread I'm not so sure about Realms of Cthulhu anymore. What in particular sets the experience apart from a classic Call of Cthulhu game?

Any other SW settings people here are fond of?

I did a Mod I liked and its easy to do so I would recommend pickin a setting you really like that there is no system for and just seeing how it fits good way to get round the rules as well.
There are loads of free mods on the Pinnacle forums.

Quote from: HombreLoboDomesticado;579871I doubt these will be an issue for my group. Good idea for fixing monsters being too weak, should it pose a problem. I'll keep that in mind.


Yes, that's the one I'm going for.

Solomon Kane and Deadlands look fun. I'd probably use Deadlands as a weird west toolkit rather than using the "canon". Solomon Kane seems like it could easily be used to run a game in a setting based on the Colonial Gothic sourcebooks.

Any reason why SW is particularly suitable for a Cthulhu game? After this thread I'm not so sure about Realms of Cthulhu anymore. What in particular sets the experience apart from a classic Call of Cthulhu game?

Any other SW settings people here are fond of?

I love SK and Deadlands (probably my favorite setting ever).

I've had a blast running Necessary Evil.

I wanna run Hellfrost so friggin' bad, too.

I dig the Suzerain stuff (particularly Caladon Falls, but Suzerain is a reality hopping multiverse) but, disclaimer, I am on Savage Mojo's payroll.

I've never played Call of Cthulhu...but the BRP system does nothing for me, while I enjoy Savage Worlds...pretty much my reason for taking Realms over Call. Your mileage my vary on that.

Savage Worlds is a great action based system that is definitely FFF.  You can use sketch maps instead of miniatures quite happily, it scales well to handle loads of sidekicks and mooks etc etc

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;579744The one corner case where it matters is where you have a target number (e.g. parry) of 6. You actually have a better chance of rolling a 6+ on an exploding d4 than a d6. The expected value of the d6 is still higher.

Well, you have a better chance of rolling exactly 6.  For people who try to cite this oddity of maths as anything other than a corner case, you can always hit them with some numbers.

For example, looking at the chance of getting a Raise against Parry 6 (i.e. 10+) for more damage, a d4 has (1/4 * 1/4 * 3/4) only a 4.7% chance, whereas the mighty d6 has (1/6 * 3/6) a relatively mighty 8.3%.

So overall, the d6 is still a better option for real men, although the 2d4 combo for weak characters (old man with staff) does offer some surisingly decent firepower with all the Acing that goes on.

SW just plain works. I've gotten to play it quite a bit now, and that's basically my conclusion. But the bennies must flow like water. If the GM is stingy about awarding bennies to the player(make up an excuse if you have to; it's no fun being hosed because you're just not the loudest person at the table), then it becomes more deadly and difficult than it's really meant to be(by default, and in most settings, anyway).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;579604It baffles me that the "all characters are identical" complaint is a thing.

It's also a myth, as proven by this: http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.com/p/savage-worlds-characters-are-all-same.html

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;579535I use minis, but lots of folks have ran the game happily without them.

I generally don't use them, and it works great.

QuoteI do hate Power Points. Tracking Power Points (which are not used in Solomon Kane and a few other settings) just feels out of place with how everything else seems to work.

Savage Worlds Deluxe has optional rules for power point free casting

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;579744The one corner case where it matters is where you have a target number (e.g. parry) of 6. You actually have a better chance of rolling a 6+ on an exploding d4 than a d6. The expected value of the d6 is still higher.

In that case, you have a better chance of rolling exactly a six on a d4, by about 1.8%, but you have an equally large change of getting a critical failure on the d4, and a much lower chance of getting a raise. Since raises are important, you're STILL better off with the d6. And the margin is less than the error rate generated by most tumbled dice.

So it's absolutely not worth thinking about.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;579865*Stats not affecting skills (except via cost reduction or Edge prerequisites). I can see some benefits to this - you can make a character who's the 'Ancient Master' with d4 Agility and d12 Fighting, say - but some players didn't like this. The first houserule the players proposed was of course to roll [Stat+Skill], Cortex style, but I opposed this on the grounds that doing everything with one dice was important to combat speed - as well as making stats too cheap.
Eventually we compromised on a rule where a d4 stat gave a -1 skill modifier, whereas a d10 or d12 stat gave a +1.

That's what Edges, and Edge Prerequisites, are for.

Quote*all the non-wild-card monsters being dropped with 1 Wound. Initially I tried just making big monsters Wild Cards, but eventually I started just giving them multiple Wounds (instead of higher Toughness) and having them become shaken at half their Wounds.  I wasn't that concerned with big monsters being "up, down, or off the table" since the PCs weren't generally fighting a lot of them at once.

It's actually better to leave the wounds at 3 and increase toughness or add edges like Hardy or Hard to Kill, etc. Adding wound levels is how Savage Worlds worked in the first printing, and it really really really bogged the game down. High toughness isn't a problem if you're Playing Smart and not just saying "I hit it with my sword" over and over

I have run a ton of Savage Worlds as a GM ever since before the first book was released (I had the beta doc, I don't remember how I got it).

Its a game you need to actually play to understand; reading the book, it doesn't read as clear as play makes it (Deluxe is better in this regard). The game was developed in actual play, and alot of the design decisions were "it just works" in actual play, and that's not always clear when reading it.

As a result, this causes alot of people who haven't had much if any experience with the system to go apeshit as soon as they read it and try to start hacking it and houseruling it without understanding what they're doing. They end up inadvertently bloating or breaking the game, come to the conclusion the game sucks, and then go on the internet to yell about it.

So there's alot of misinformation about the game as a result. Really, the best thing to do is just play it. It just works. It's quick to play, combats move lightning fast, it can handle any action the players want to attempt, it makes even lesser foes dangerous, particularly in large numbers. It explicitly rewards smart play and clever tactics and will make uncreative "I hit it with my sword" players of high rank ineffectual compared to clever low rank PCs. PCs of different ranks can adventure together without any serious power disparity issues.

Alot of people will claim it does "pulp" games out of the box. This isn't really true without some setting rules. This is, again, a case of "read the rules, haven't played the game"; out of the box, the game is fairly lethal (even with bennies), far more than you'd expect from a "pulp" game. However, there are several pulp supplements available to get that feel via setting rules. The "pulp" label comes more from the presentation of the book than the actual game play.

The Core Rules are just that: core rules. They're basically an SRD. Very few games will be run with just the core rules. The game is explicit about this: the core rules plus a setting is what is needed. The setting will have Setting Rules to evoke the aesthetic of that setting. Savage Worlds Deluxe has some example Setting Rules to use as a model for you own (or to use wholesale, including the aforementioned "No Power Points" spell casting).

For settings, most of them are really good, but I like Hellfrost. It has almost a Greyhawk kind of feel (in fact, some folks on the TAG forums have inserted Castle Greyhawk into the setting). It's a dark fantasy setting with the feel of a Norse epic. The world is well fleshed out with tons of locations, rumors, organizations, and people. It's a great setting for a sandbox.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;581631That's what Edges, and Edge Prerequisites, are for.

I know - I wouldn't have done this except that I was trying to make the players happy.

QuoteIt's actually better to leave the wounds at 3 and increase toughness or add edges like Hardy or Hard to Kill, etc. Adding wound levels is how Savage Worlds worked in the first printing, and it really really really bogged the game down. High toughness isn't a problem if you're Playing Smart and not just saying "I hit it with my sword" over and over

Oh, I know that you do it with clever tactics, but eh.
I don't run mass-combats with thirty ogres enough that I caused a huge problem, although meddling with it is more complicated than it looks at first glance (since you also need to account for wound penalties and monsters becoming shaken too easily despite more health levels).

I've heard repeatedly that original SW had multiple wound levels, but as far as I've been able to determine it hasn't ever worked that way. FWIW, I asked that question here -

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=22818

And then again here -

http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36429

Quote from: Doctor Jest;581629Savage Worlds Deluxe has optional rules for power point free casting

Yep, and I doubt if I ever use Power Points again.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;581628It's also a myth, as proven by this: http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.com/p/savage-worlds-characters-are-all-same.html

Which is why I wrote that...=)

Although, I apparently now need to add a disclaimer "Warning: If you and everyone at your table take the same advancement options, your characters may still look identical".