The PC description that starts with magical wishes, can be secretly replaced by the GM as a delusion that they have magical wishes.

Quote from: darthfozzywig;969920Jeebus, people, do you guys actually behave that way around the table?

You're assuming they actually play these games instead of just theorizing online.

Quote from: Dumarest;969930You're assuming they actually play these games instead of just theorizing online.

Quote from: Dumarest;969930You're assuming they actually play these games instead of just theorizing online.

It's entirely possible they're just joking.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;969990It's entirely possible they're just joking.

It's entirely possible I am too.

On the other hand, if somebody said their first level character in my game had a ring of infinite wishes, I would most certainly say "no," and I am not joking.

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;970003On the other hand, if somebody said their first level character in my game had a ring of infinite wishes, I would most certainly say "no," and I am not joking.

Of course. And this is why we're not interested in seeing character backgrounds. You're first level. This adventure is your background!

Quote from: darthfozzywig;969920Jeebus, people, do you guys actually behave that way around the table?

Dungeons & Assholes

I don'tknow yet:).
I mean, never in the last 18 years has anyone come to my table and tried anything as blatantly unfun as the "ring of infinite wishes at 1st level" shit. Had anyone tried it, I might have applied the solution I presented. But in practice, I don't know if I'd show that much restraint.

Quote from: Dumarest;969930You're assuming they actually play these games instead of just theorizing online.

Yeah, haven't played in 3 days now. I'm obviously a theoretic:D!

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;970014Of course. And this is why we're not interested in seeing character backgrounds. You're first level. This adventure is your background!

OTOH a 1st level Fighter is a Veteran, and I find memoirs of veterans highly entertaining and educational for Refereeing;).

Quote from: AsenRG;970065OTOH s 1st level Fighter is a Veteran, and I find memoirs of veterans highly entertaining and educational for Refereeing;).

Well, and even "1st Level Fighters" didn't sprout fully formed from the earth. They've had some kind of life experiences before the game (In most games anyway). The assumption that "background" means "short story" regardless of the games premise and assumptions isn't universal and that is means mastubatory abusive power grab less so.

Quote from: Nexus;970066Well, and even "1st Level Fighters" didn't sprout fully formed from the earth. They've had some kind of life experiences before the game (In most games anyway). The assumption that "background" means "short story" regardless of the games premise and assumptions isn't universal and that is means mastubatory abusive power grab less so.

I don't think anyone has said a 1st level fighter comes from nowhere and couldn't have a background (though many old school D&D players wouldn't bother with any background at all). However, in the context of some games, more than a few sentences of background would be overkill. I have no issue with a longer background in a game where a starting character has more to them, though I would balk at a 10 page background in any game I could imagine myself running, but there's plenty of room between none and 10 pages...

As to players making power grabs, I have had D&D players ask for an heirloom sword to start with, and I've pointed out that at most they would get a +1 weapon (in the times when I would start new PCs into an existing group with a bit of something and maybe not even 1st level), and that heirloom it might be, but eventually it will be discarded for a better magic weapon.

On the other hand, I have had at least one player write a multi-page backrgound without consulting with me that conflicted with my ideas for the setting and the player wasn't really receptive to adjusting their background.

Really I think people are trying to create a bigger debate here than the actuality of what happens at real tables warrants.

The player who shows up with a long background and expects the GM to read it all and accept it without discussion is a jerk. Should a player be brazen enough to write a ring of wishes into his 1st level PCs background is a jerk. These players MAY be reacting based on having GMs who were jerks such that the only way to have a competent character is for that to be part of the character's past.

A player who would like to write more than 25 words of background for a 1st level OD&D character should talk to the GM about expectations for the game. Even 25 words may be a lot of work for a PC who could die with the first die roll of the game session.

Frank

Quote from: ffilz;970164I don't think anyone has said a 1st level fighter comes from nowhere and couldn't have a background (though many old school D&D players wouldn't bother with any background at all). However, in the context of some games, more than a few sentences of background would be overkill. I have no issue with a longer background in a game where a starting character has more to them, though I would balk at a 10 page background in any game I could imagine myself running, but there's plenty of room between none and 10 pages...


As to players making power grabs, I have had D&D players ask for an heirloom sword to start with, and I've pointed out that at most they would get a +1 weapon (in the times when I would start new PCs into an existing group with a bit of something and maybe not even 1st level), and that heirloom it might be, but eventually it will be discarded for a better magic weapon.

On the other hand, I have had at least one player write a multi-page backrgound without consulting with me that conflicted with my ideas for the setting and the player wasn't really receptive to adjusting their background.

Really I think people are trying to create a bigger debate here than the actuality of what happens at real tables warrants.

The player who shows up with a long background and expects the GM to read it all and accept it without discussion is a jerk. Should a player be brazen enough to write a ring of wishes into his 1st level PCs background is a jerk. These players MAY be reacting based on having GMs who were jerks such that the only way to have a competent character is for that to be part of the character's past.

A player who would like to write more than 25 words of background for a 1st level OD&D character should talk to the GM about expectations for the game. Even 25 words may be a lot of work for a PC who could die with the first die roll of the game session.

Frank

I didn't claim anyone literally said 1st level characters spring up from nowhere. I was making a counterpoint to the earlier statement their first adventure was the character's background if they were a 1st level characters. Everyone comes from somewhere. One group may not care, others do. Different strokes but its not objectively wrong headed in either case. As some with more D and D experience than I have have pointed "1st level" hasn't always meant your character is so fresh off the farm they still smell like hay. A background doesn't have to be particularly adventure laden or an excuse to give the PC hoards of loot, contacts, rank, etc. but just a means to round them out a person, give them some grounding in the setting. Some like to set that up beforehand, others like to ad lib it up during the game, some gives no damns either way.

Quote from: Nexus;969083Its not the idea people dislike something I like but the intensity and degree that seems a little much for the subject.

The effete thread nanny has spoken.

Quote from: Nexus;969283To name one... you sure seem to be.

Wait for it.

Quote from: Nexus;969283. . . but you seem to be pissed off about something all the time...

I don't suffer fools gladly, no.

That said, I can see how this post could be taken as, 'ur dwng it wrng.' That wasn't my intent, because unless you and I are sitting at the same table, I honestly don't give a bloody squirt how you play. I was simply arguing there is another way to skin the feline, offered in my warmly engaging style.

Quote from: Nexus;970187I didn't claim anyone literally said 1st level characters spring up from nowhere. I was making a counterpoint to the earlier statement their first adventure was the character's background if they were a 1st level characters. Everyone comes from somewhere. One group may not care, others do. Different strokes but its not objectively wrong headed in either case. As some with more D and D experience than I have have pointed "1st level" hasn't always meant your character is so fresh off the farm they still smell like hay. A background doesn't have to be particularly adventure laden or an excuse to give the PC hoards of loot, contacts, rank, etc. but just a means to round them out a person, give them some grounding in the setting. Some like to set that up beforehand, others like to ad lib it up during the game, some gives no damns either way.

Good point on your response being to the 1st level PCs first adventure being the background. Sure, the character came from somewhere, and if someone wants to get that down before they enter their first dungeon, that's fine.

I think we're mostly in agreement...

Nowadays, you're technically a "veteran" if you were in a warzone once. This applies even if you weren't in a combat. You may have been in a firefight or two, or arrived as backup to someone towards the end of their firefight. Or maybe you just went out on patrol every day and had some locals give you the evil eye. But you're not Sergeant York.

Likewise, a 1st level fighter. You have 0xp. You have no experience in game terms. But they weren't just a town guard, that's a 0-level man-at-arms. They marched towards the sound of clash of sword on shield once, and they were perhaps in a shield wall. "I stabbed, but I don't know if my blade struck man, shield, or armour, among the din and clatter of the line of battle I couldn't tell. And then they broke and ran and many of the lads chased and cut them down. Afterwards we looted the dead. And this is how I got my 50-200gp of starting gear."

This doesn't need to be stated, really. And it's senseless to write up a background for someone who might fall in a ten foot pit and die. Nobody makes a film about the poor bastard who stepped off the boat on Omaha Beach and was machinegunned in the first three steps, or drowned in the water under the weight of his gear.

If you survive long enough to actually do something, then we're interested in your story. Don't be precious, if he dies you can roll up another one straight away and be playing again in ten minutes. The first adventure is your background.