Wow.  So incredibly wrong.

Quote from: Ryan DanceyFrom the inception of the hobby up to the present, virtually all tabletop roleplaying games are designed to be played without the requirement for an electronic component.
 
I suspect that is about to end, with Wizards of the Coast announcing 4th Edition and its tight coupling with electronic tools.  I think its about time.
 
Going forward, there will be two kinds of tabletop roleplaying experience:  Those which are hybridized with computer support and those which are not.  I believe those games that embrace that change will thrive, and those which do not will not.

So staggeringly wrong I don't even know where to start...

"My concept for the Storytelling Game system is strongly hybridized.  It may even be unplayable without computer assistance."

Then it'll fail abysmally. Nobody is going to sit around the game table with a computer each, and if it's just playing at the computer without a group, then what does the rpg offer than a zillion computer games don't already?

I don't think he realises just how many of the world's roleplayers have no computer at all, or not net connection, or have those but are not very savvy with them. Roleplaying games are a social creative hobby. If you don't want to be social and want to use a computer, you'll play computer games.

Even people with all the tech toys, and who are very comfortable with using them, deliberately choose to play non-computer games.  They like that it's unplugged. It's part of the appeal of something like D&D as opposed to an MMORPG.

If this is the direction Ryan D and WotC are heading, then as Kyle say, it will fail abysmally.

I think WOTC is just heading in the direction of offering character/monster generators and map tools.  SO, it wouldn't be that different from those who play D&D and the DM has a laptop with monster pics, pdfs of books, and a few other things.  In those cases, it's basically face to face with a more organized DM, but you could take out the computer with no serious issues.

I agree with others that games requiring computers aren't a good idea.  Many (most?) gaming groups are not that different from a group of friends sitting around in a bar or coffee shop, except they're also doing something.  I seriously doubt that they would want the bother of dealing with machines or desire the reduced direct human interaction.

Sorry guys - on this I respectfully disagree with you.

I know that most gamers now and most gaming groups now are this way.  However, I don't think it's wise to guess that is the way the will be.  Why?

I didn't get my first computer, a TRS-80, until I was, I think 12 or 13.  It had limited capability; I programmed in basic; you stored the "program" on an actual cassette tape.  Good times.

My son and daughter are 6 and 5, respectively.  They each have their own computer with internet access.  They play all kinds of games - almost none of which I have to pay for BTW (where the WotC business plan doesn't see far enough ahead IMHO). They are better at using a mouse, navigating a web page, and general computer use than many adults. They intuitively try things, explore, figure them out on their own.

This will be the generation that grew up with iPods and iPhones, with, in the US, nearly ubiquitous Internet access. They will expect hand held computer-like devices to augment their gaming experience.

I know we old grognards don't see it that way.  It was difficult for me to come to grips with it when I first started considering it 5 or 6 years ago. But it makes sense.  Build on the strengths of RPG's - openess of exploration (the DM is human) and social gathering - but use the computer for the things it's really good at - crunching numbers, providing all possible options, etc.

We may agree to disagree, but I would not bet my future market on the way we do things now.

EDIT: some, probably not all, spelling/grammar issues.

EDIT 2: You know what the first thing I did with that TRS-80 and Basic?  Try to write an adventure game.  Go figure.

Oh...and one more thing.  If RD's big idea is that the future of TTRPG's is going to incorporate computer support to the point of being a hybrid...big fucking deal. This guy is some guru about games?

I've been saying the same for a few years. I've posted as such on this very site from almost the time I started here a year ago. I'm just some guy who plays D&D and likes gadgets - and I figured that out.

So my conclusion is that RD is saying TTRPG's will be saved by:

• Making the games Storytelling Games - even if they're not, names mean everything!
• Use computers.

Brilliant...fucking brilliant.

I'm skeptical about whether Dancey, WotC et al really gets it.  They know "kids today" like the computer, and they know World of Warcraft is really popular and they want some of that sweet money action.  Unfortunately they're a pen and paper company (or division of a larger company).   So they're trying something that the newspapers and comic companies tried already.  Tried, failed, and gave up on.

Computers and the web certainly have their place, but trying to make it a requirement for playing a tabletop game is absolutely wrong-headed and doomed to failure.  No question.  It makes it weaker than a game you can just play without the computer, and weaker than computer games like World of Warcraft.  It's not the best of both worlds... it's like an icecream hamburger.  It's like 3D Email.

Online stuff that adds to the game, or helps market and sell it?  Cool.  Great idea.  This hybrid stuff?  It's like listening to corporate types talk about the web in the pre dotcom days.

Quote from: James J SkachI've been saying the same for a few years. I've posted as such on this very site from almost the time I started here a year ago. I'm just some guy who plays D&D and likes gadgets - and I figured that out.

But are you going to do anything about it?

Dancey bought TSR. He made D20 and open game. He might.













I mean, he's not gonna. And it's totally not my thing. But yknow.

Ostajak makes an excellent comment on Ryan's blog:

Quote from: OstajakA game needs a challenge by definition, and only challenge that is out of your control - present whether you like it or not - is real. That's what the adversarial, dualistic relationship between the GM and players in a traditional RPG serves: making sure there are real, unchanging obstacles that cannot be calvinballed away. A GM could be removed from the picture by pitting the players against each other and making the rules utterly rigid and never-changing (like in Chess), but somehow I don't think that's what you've got in mind.

OK, I'm officially lost on what Dancey is going for.

He starts off by saying RPGs need to distance themselves from MMORPGs.

Then, he wants to re-brand them as "story-telling games".

Next, he wants to get rid of the GM.

After that, he wants to make all games part of a pay-for-play world network.

And the latest development is - everyone playing will have to have a computer.

WTF??  Did April 1st come late this year?
He starts off trying to turn the hobby into My Life With Master, then ends up re-creating WoW.

It's so absurd.  Joe Average doesn't want to waste his time with learning/playing RPGs now.  Does anyone really think that by requiring computers, requiring player-created content, and requiring organized game events - not to mention the extra subscription costs for both online game content and organized play organizations - is going to make games even more popular???

If anything, it will drive out at least half the existing players that are left.

If you really want to grow the hobby back a little more, focus on the re-vitalization of the boardgame market instead of trying to copy computer games.  Work on creating easy to learn, easy to play, expandable games with good quality components and actually try and market the things so people will know they exist.

Quote from: NicephorusI think WOTC is just heading in the direction of offering character/monster generators and map tools.  SO, it wouldn't be that different from those who play D&D and the DM has a laptop with monster pics, pdfs of books, and a few other things.  In those cases, it's basically face to face with a more organized DM, but you could take out the computer with no serious issues.

This would make sense, since they attempted to offer those for 3e and just never quite got them finished.

It could be that Dancey doesn't know what he's after, either. Just a thought.

I mean, never forget that he's the guy who thinks that roleplaying is twenty minutes of fun packed into four hours. There's got to be a reason he thinks that. Perhaps he's just one of those guys who doesn't want the same thing for more than twenty minutes straight, so he's never happy.

Quote from: Erik BoielleBut are you going to do anything about it?

Dancey bought TSR. He made D20 and open game. He might.

I didn't know Dancey bought TSR - really?

Yeah, ya know, my wife asked me if I was going to pursue this idea at all. This one (of my many hair-brained) schemes I just might jump on.

I know what I envision.  I just need someone who can translate that for me...someone brilliant...Bill...I should talk to Bill.

Quote from: StuartOnline stuff that adds to the game, or helps market and sell it?  Cool.  Great idea.  This hybrid stuff?  It's like listening to corporate types talk about the web in the pre dotcom days.

Spot on.

When I worked in publishing in the mid-90s the geniuses in Sales would go on and on about how the e-book would end the physical item. The era of the book is over! Also, like, the internet!

Well, guess what happened on the internet? Amazon.com, is what.

Speaking of e-books... does anyone remember e-tools?

Well, with 4E we're finally getting e-tools. W00t! Okay, seven years late, but hey.

Quote from: James J SkachI didn't know Dancey bought TSR - really?

Kinda. He went to pitch something to them, realised that they were in dire straights* and so set up the deal whereby Peter Adkison and Wizards bought it.









*singing backup vocals