Ryan Dancey comments on D&D

droog · October 17, 2006, 09:47:23 AM

Quote from: jrientsNo. Under previous versions every 1gp worth of loot you wrested from the world earned you 1xp.

That, I have to say, was one of the first things I ditched. Then I made the players pay GP to go up levels ('training'). They couldn't earn any more XP till they'd done their training.

Harsh but fair, that was me....

Settembrini · October 17, 2006, 10:01:29 AM

Ryan Dancey has really lost it.
He doesn`t even understand that XPs are not the reward system. You don`t play for them. You play to win against "Lord Bane and the Giant Spiders".
Or for high fiving with friends. Or other social reason.

Rewarding class feature use is teh stoopid.

Especially since there is no competition between players in D&D who levels first. Everybody should and will level about the same time +- one evening.

Or how do other people play?
"Hah! I`m thirteenth level but you are only tenth! Loser!"

jrients · October 17, 2006, 10:05:13 AM

droog, that sounds like a legitimate variant to me.

Quote from: bagpussAnd you thought that was a good thing?

The nature of the game was fundamentally altered by removing the 1gp = 1xp rule. Previously, most of your xp came from loot. That was a big motivator to brave dragons and other badass foes with tasty treasure types. If you could think of a clever way to score a big haul with minimal fighting, you earned big points. If anything, the present rules encourage more combat.

Sosthenes · October 17, 2006, 10:13:08 AM

Quote from: jrientsIf you could think of a clever way to score a big haul with minimal fighting, you earned big points. If anything, the present rules encourage more combat.

No need for combat. Just enter a dungeon with lots of traps and undead and the rest of the party will soak in the light of the high-charisma turning-feat cleric and the trap expert rogue...

Maddman · October 17, 2006, 11:33:51 AM

I agree with Pundit and Kryyst - advancement should happen at the rate the GM thinks it should happen at, with all point awards being merely guidelines and suggestions.

obryn · October 17, 2006, 11:34:46 AM

I've trumpeted my own XP system before, but I might as well flog it again.

* Every character earns 200 xp * the highest level in the party, every session. Period. This is the bonus for showing up.

* I hand out "chips" during the session for anything that enhances the game - bringing snacks, soda, and beer are easy ways to get these; good roleplaying, creative use of abilities, and the like are also good ways to get them. These are worth 40 xp * the highest level.

I anchor everything to the highest level to get the lower-level party members caught up a bit more quickly.

It works and it works darn well without any kind of bookkeeping nightmares.

-O

jrients · October 17, 2006, 11:48:10 AM

Quote from: MaddmanI agree with Pundit and Kryyst - advancement should happen at the rate the GM thinks it should happen at, with all point awards being merely guidelines and suggestions.

That's pretty much the system I use for any game that isn't D&D.

kryyst · October 17, 2006, 11:57:44 AM

Quote from: jrientsThat's pretty much the system I use for any game that isn't D&D.

Why don't you use it in D&D? You want the game to have the felling of a video game? If so that's cool. Just curious why you make the distinction.

jrients · October 17, 2006, 12:02:45 PM

Quote from: kryystWhy don't you use it in D&D? You want the game to have the felling of a video game? If so that's cool. Just curious why you make the distinction.

Not video gamey, just gamey. My basic approach to xp in D&D is to treat it as your score.

arminius · October 17, 2006, 02:26:41 PM

Jeff, as someone who first played D&D nearly 30 years ago, let me say that your comments have been enlightening. (Especially as I'm considering running a Rules Cyclopedia game at the moment.)

D&D does make more sense if treasures are the main score, while killing stuff is just a bonus.

But this has a problem if you want to play a game where "getting treasure" isn't always the main focus.

Therefore I propose that there be a way for the DM to assign a "bounty" of XP for accomplishing certain goals, however they may be achieved.

Now the problem is figuring out how to pick the goals.

Nicephorus · October 17, 2006, 02:32:12 PM

Quote from: Elliot WilenNow the problem is figuring out how to pick the goals.

For that, I let the players/plot determine it. If they successfully slap the king and rescue the princes (or slap the princess and rescue the king) like they were trying, they get a bonus. If they give it a good shot but don't succeed, they get a partial bonus.

You can also throw in individual bonuses. If Odoacer finds his long lost puppy just like his background describes, he gets bonus XP that session.

I don't think it's worthwhile making a complex goal system that will work for every game.

jrients · October 17, 2006, 02:36:39 PM

How about giving each player an allottment of XP, say three different amounts, and fix the campaign around the goals?

1000 xp - Woo Essela the Witch-Maiden

500 xp - Drive the orcs out of the Blue Forest

150 xp - Find my missing brother

Once a goal is completed, have the player pick a new goal that you give a higher amount.

Just thinking out loud here.

RPGPundit · October 17, 2006, 02:43:20 PM

Quote from: SettembriniRyan Dancey has really lost it.
He doesn`t even understand that XPs are not the reward system. You don`t play for them. You play to win against "Lord Bane and the Giant Spiders".
Or for high fiving with friends. Or other social reason.

For a lot of players, XP is one of the reward systems that matter most.

RPGPundit

Nicephorus · October 17, 2006, 02:45:05 PM

Quote from: jrientsHow about giving each player an allottment of XP, say three different amounts, and fix the campaign around the goals?...Once a goal is completed, have the player pick a new goal that you give a higher amount.

That would be cool. I'd throw in that you might want to have one goal the same for everyone (so that they are working together) but the value of that goal might vary across characters.

I've never done that formally (I'm a lazy record keeper) but framing it like that might help some players think more about their character motivation.

Settembrini · October 17, 2006, 03:02:23 PM

QuoteFor a lot of players, XP is one of the reward systems that matter most.

Still, does anybody play it contest-style?
Level faster than the rest of the group?
Never ever encountered that way of play.