There's a loooong argument on RPGnet about price fixing, er...."price floors" in regards to rpgs. I guess I had to know what my fellow forumites felt about this situation. It should have quite an effect on Internet deep discounters (among other things), and may potentially cause an increase in how much we pay for rpgs. Here's the link:


http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=341549

Edit: I found another link at boardgamegeek devoted to this subject.. Checkahoy.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/174129

THat article makes me fucking sick.

The rightists just legalized fucking price fixing, and he's goddamn praising it.  

I could throw up.

I don't think we'll see the results of this decision immediately, but just wait until around Christmas time!

You can't have proper fascism without there being collusion between government and business to control the population in the manner of serfdom.

Quote from: J ArcaneTHat article makes me fucking sick.

The rightists just legalized fucking price fixing, and he's goddamn praising it.  

I could throw up.

I share your sentiments. I'm still fucking astounded that this happened, really. Every day that I wake up and watch the news, I feel like screaming all the way to the airport and buying a one-way ticket to anywhere but here. But since the government already regulates those prices, it'll be damn near impossible for me to do so until I win the lotto (was looking at tickets to Morrocco the other day and fuck if they aren't almost 2k).

I don't like it.   Dancey, hellsreach from WEG, and a few others were royally pissing me off in that thread. They were implying (but not openly admitting) that selling a product below MSRP is "teh evil". :haw:

You know, I don't object to paying high prices for rpgs and other gaming materials. What I strenuously object to, is not having a CHOICE. I want the fucking option to go to different stores (online or not!) based upon PRICE. This ruling will have no effect on GOOD gaming stores, but it WILL temporarily breathe a little life into the BAD gaming stores. :mad:

The fuckers kept going on and on about how it'll improve the gaming stores, and we absolutely MUST support the gaming stores "or teh rpg hobby is D0omeD!!"  :rolleyes: I don't buy it. The Internet is the future, and it seems that too many rpg manufacturers and brick 'n mortar retailers are unable to suck it up and accept that.

B&M retailers (B&M = brick 'n mortar) need to compete with online discounters beyond just price. If they want to survive, they need to provide other services.  A B&M store should embrace tournament play, consider renting storage space, gaming space, and developing a web presence and forum on top of that. And that's just the beginning. Too many game stores are basically run by a gaming nerd with a dream. No wonder so many of these stores suck.

When I purchase a game (or other product) online, I get this:

(1.) no snotty clerks
(2.) reliable and prompt delivery
(3.) discount prices that a B&M store can't match
(4.) superior information and networking on games I like
(5.) the list goes on, but you get my point

The gaming stores never introduced me to gaming anyway. Personally, I was unaware of gaming stores until years after I started playing, and most gaming stores I've seen were unimpressive, had highly limited selections, and did little to improve a network for gaming. Not to mention, nowadays, I have to travel 45 minutes, and pay a huge wad of cash to reach the nearest gaming store in Metro Boston. Who needs the headache? :confused: I'd rather just buy my games online (for less money, thank you very much!).

Internet Deep Discounters are retailers too! But some of the bastards over there were acting like people who sell online at a discount are scum of the Earth. :rolleyes: They weren't quite saying it, but they sure as fuck were implying it.

I'm actually not against the concept of B&M stores. But I haven't found any that are both high-quality and convenient for me to get to. That's why I'd rather buy stuff online now.

The only good thing I can say is this: I personally believe this will have little effect on large online retailers such as Amazon and e-bay. I HOPE that we'll still get our discounts there, and don't think anyone has the clout to take them on, even after this ruling. But what do I know? I'm just a cog in a wheel, and know little about legal matters.

Edit: Everything I'm saying here is a response to the RPGnet thread (it's a long thread!). I haven't read the boardgamegeek thread yet. I will soon do so, after a good night's sleep.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambThe only good thing I can say is this: I personally believe this will have little effect on large online retailers such as Amazon and e-bay. I HOPE that we'll still get our discounts there, and don't think anyone has the clout to take them on, even after this ruling. But what do I know? I'm just a cog in a wheel, and know little about legal matters.

Edit: Everything I'm saying here is a response to the RPGnet thread (it's a long thread!). I haven't read the boardgamegeek thread yet. I will soon do so, after a good night's sleep.

It won't effect eBay at all.  The used market will continue, if not thrive more than before.  

I just can't believe this fuckstick actually claiming this will be "better" for anyone, especially the game shops.  Clearly he's never run a store that dealt in Games Workshop products.  They've been price fixing for years, but the victims are all poor shops that can't afford to do anything about it, if they even know it's illegal to begin with, so GW gets away with it.  

What he's essentially doing here is praising and encouraging the entire industry to turn into a bunch of Games Workshops.  

It's all just part of Ryan's classic shill behavior.  The disengenousness drips from his posts as always, and in his current "consultant" role, he needs new bogus projects to try and con companies into undertaking, so that he gets his fee.  

I wonder how many suckers he'll bankrupt with this one?

Quote from: Sacrificial LambWhen I purchase a game (or other product) online, I get this:

(1.) no snotty clerks
(2.) reliable and prompt delivery
(3.) discount prices that a B&M store can't match
(4.) superior information and networking on games I like
(5.) the list goes on, but you get my point

(6.) delivery to Hungary in two weeks instead of months (or, in the case of Deluxe Hero Wars, a freaking year)
(7.) buying English game supplements at 200 HUF to the USD instead of 300 (seriously, the price-gouging going on before easy online payment methods was sickening)

As for Mr. Dancey's commentary and the proposed regulations, they are indeed good news, for the price-fixing cartels, but never for the customer. Even Adam Smith understood that businessmen have to be controlled or they will always seek means to gain an advantage over people they sell their products to.* The collusion of business interests with campaign finance and politics is a dangerous trend in modern societies, and a threat to democracy and public accountability . Of course, this is just one step to take away or restrict our liberties as consumers - from software EULAs to copy protection which makes media products unusable on players, there are many, many more.

* - "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

Quote from: Melan(6.) delivery to Hungary in two weeks instead of months (or, in the case of Deluxe Hero Wars, a freaking year)
(7.) buying English game supplements at 200 HUF to the USD instead of 300 (seriously, the price-gouging going on before easy online payment methods was sickening)

Exactly the same here... If you want your game the very same month you have to order from Amazon. I am not mentioning the price, which is 150% and that despite the fact the incomes here are about half or less of the US.

I thought his remarks about "That's capitalism!" were especially precious, as though the notion that being Not-Communist or Not-Socialist is an inherent virtue.  Make no mistake, pure capitalism isn't a virtue, and plenty of people can get hurt by unchecked capitalism.  What a jackass.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambThey were implying (but not openly admitting) that selling a product below MSRP is "teh evil".

Anyone remember a few years back when John Wick claimed that anyone who used an RPG book without buying a copy of their own was committing theft, depriving the author and publisher of due revenue?  Dancey's argument here is essentially the same, only he has a court ruling to back him up.  It remains equally absurd, though.

!i!

Quote from: Sacrificial LambThe only good thing I can say is this: I personally believe this will have little effect on large online retailers such as Amazon and e-bay. I HOPE that we'll still get our discounts there, and don't think anyone has the clout to take them on, even after this ruling. But what do I know? I'm just a cog in a wheel, and know little about legal matters.

I posted on this topic on my blog when Dancey's article first emerged.
My feeling was more or less like yours.
I'm not convinced that:
1. This will change anything.
2. Even if it did, I am almost completely convinced that this will NOT save the FLGS.

And its stupid to portray this as an evil "right wing conspiracy", or to claim that price-fixing is a right-wing virtue. The left are the ones who most usually advocate anti free-market positions. And its not as though Wal-mart and clothing distributors were both secretly in agreement about this, cackling and stroking their mustaccios with glee. This decision could potentially trouble as many big corporations as it potentially pleases.

Anyways, no one is going to tell walmart what prices to set; which means, ultimately, that this decision is a blip.

RPGPundit

WAL-MART does not sell REAPER or IRON WIND miniatures, they don't sell  D&D hardback books in their local stores - we'll always have them beat at that.

- Ed C.

They're real snoozers. I follow TBP one for a bit, but eventually decided I didn't want to read about what folks thought what might happen. I'll wait until it starts to happen, until there's some definitive affect, and discuss it then.

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPunditI posted on this topic on my blog when Dancey's article first emerged.
My feeling was more or less like yours.
I'm not convinced that:
1. This will change anything.
2. Even if it did, I am almost completely convinced that this will NOT save the FLGS.

And its stupid to portray this as an evil "right wing conspiracy", or to claim that price-fixing is a right-wing virtue. The left are the ones who most usually advocate anti free-market positions. And its not as though Wal-mart and clothing distributors were both secretly in agreement about this, cackling and stroking their mustaccios with glee. This decision could potentially trouble as many big corporations as it potentially pleases.

Anyways, no one is going to tell walmart what prices to set; which means, ultimately, that this decision is a blip.

RPGPundit

Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc.

Majority by:
Kennedy (conservative)
Joined by:
Roberts (conservative), Scalia (conservative), Thomas(conservative), Alito (conservative libertarian)

Dissent by:
Breyer (liberal)
Joined by:
Stevens (liberal), Souter(liberal), Ginsburg (liberal)

No sir, political stance had nothing to do with it at all . . . :rolleyes: