Quote from: Bilharzia;867514RQ3 was an attempt that never really worked,

Quote from: The Butcher;867620How so?

RQ3 as a rules system didn't fully or successfully tear itself away from the context of Glorantha, (I have to say I still liked it, and preferred it generally to RQ2) it tried to half-heartedly but it didn't introduce much that was much of an improvement to RQ2 and at the same time it did add a number of things that worked poorly - like the fatigue rules or the new sorcery system. Coupled with this it was published by Avalon Hill which massively jacked the price up and lowered production standards...this didn't help with it's uptake by the existing audience and pretty much killed it for a new one. This is why the intervention of Loz & Pete with Mongoose RQ and then RQ6 was a bit of a miracle, because (after all this time) they both innovated on the existing rules and with RQ6 created something strong enough to stand without Glorantha as a setting.

Quote from: Bren;867628Setting info tied to a useful rules system (which I assume something RQ2 based  would end up being) is probably the only way that Chaosium is likely to get any more of my money at this point in time.

Well, you are in luck, because based on the FAQ Chaosium posted about this it seems like that is exactly what they intend to offer:

QuoteAn important design goal for us is that the rules system needs to be integrated with the setting and should reinforce and reward the player's interaction with the setting. And the setting for RuneQuest is Glorantha!

Quote from: yosemitemike;867632You are pissy and looking for something to bitch about and you will find it no matter what I do so there's no point in giving a shit what you want.

That's pretty funny coming from a pissy, whiny little bitch like you, cupcake.

QuoteThis is the first time I have seen them strongly disconnected from each other.

Given that you don't know jack shit about Runequest or Glorantha, your ignorance of the connections and lack there of between the two is hardly surprising. The publication of Runequest 3 in 1984 created a clear separation between Runequest as a system and Glorantha as a setting and that separation has continued until last week. So as news flashes go, this one has been dead and dusted for decades. A quick Internet search would easily have shown you that, but you've already established that doing your own homework isn't your M.O.

Quote from: Bren;867647That's pretty funny coming from a pissy, whiny little bitch like you, cupcake.

Yup, cross thread drama.

Quote from: Bren;867647Given that you don't know jack shit blah blah blah

and pointless pissiness.  How much spam are you going to add to this thread just because you are pissy about an unrelated thread?

Has anyone read or played the 13th Age Glorantha?  I had wondered if 13th Age would have been a better match for Glorantha than RuneQuest.

We played the hell out of RQ2 for years, but by the early 90s, I switched out to Stormbringer 3e because I preferred the looser, faster system and I loved Moorcock's doomed setting.

Over the years, I've played a bit of RQ2 with other groups and discovered how wildly different the actual canon of Glorantha is compared to what we gleaned from the RQ2 books.

Sadly, what I learned about the "real" Glorantha didn't do much for me.

Quote from: Bren;867628(though I have a niggling desire to pick up Horror on the Orient Express, in part just because my wife really likes the historical Orient Express and likes CoC)

I've both played and run Orient Express and I highly recommend it. I had lots of fun with it years ago.

Quote from: The Butcher;867620I'm not 100% sure Runequest 1e was the first non-class-and-level, skill-based roleplaying game — I believe Traveller may hold that distinction — but RQ certainly played a huge role in divulging the concept, playing as it were a respectable, if distant, #2 to D&D's vastly dominant #1 in the 1970s.

One also has to take into account the influence of RQ/BRP in European game design (which was a lot more profound than in the US), with notable titles such as WFRP, Drakar och Demoner and Aquelarre, and indeed the influence of RuneQuest on later designs of D&D (especially 3rd, via Jonathon Tweet) and the World of Darkness as a setting (via Mark Rein Hagen). And of course, don't forget that the whole BRP bandwagon (including Call of Cthulhu, et al) followed on from RQ.

In the case of Traveller, I think they were both developed independent of each other but came up with different ways of incorporating similar ideas. I regard both as equally influential, albeit in different spheres of later gaming design. Traveller's influence can be seen more in games like GURPS and Cyberpunk.

This thread is kinda like opening Pandora's Box...:eek:

Voted "Love Runequest, don't care about Glorantha", but I really meant "Love Runequest, Glorantha can take a flying leap".

Goofy and the Ducks don't particularly bother me.  I loathe Campbell/Monomyth/Hero's Journey and canned metaplot, regardless of what setting may be at hand and I get the distinct impression that they're the creamy filling within Glorantha's hard outer shell of Narrativium (which I'm also less-than-fond of).

Quote from: Phillip;867541I think there's even less demand today than there was a quarter century ago for yet another "generic fantasy" rules set. D&D / Pathfinder seems to have that well sewn up.

And what of those who want to play fantasy in homebrew settings without slotting everything into classes, levels, and system-enforced "zero-to-hero" (or, depending on edition, "hero-to-superhero")?

Quote from: Bren;867627I seldom hear WBRM or Nomand Gods mentioned. Those games were one of the initial selling points for Runequest for me.

I suspect most people did not see WBRM until the Avalon Hill edition (long after RQ was published) and most have never heard of Nomad Gods.

Side Note: I have all three editions of WBRM. The first edition with nothing but runes on the counters, the second with less confusing counters (with normal counter illos, much more playable for me as I didn't spend so much time trying to remember what each counter was), and the AH edition. I prefer either Chaosium edition to the much cleaned up AH edition.

As someone who came to BRP via the Games Workshop versions of CoC and Stormbringer, I don't have much emotional attachment to RuneQuest. I love the logical simplicity of the core BRP system but I was not a fan of the RQ Magic systems which were, for me, over complicated (particularly RQ3 sorcery). I much preferred the simpler systems in CoC and Elric!

As for Glorantha, I didn't have much interest in it until the late 80s when Tales of the Reaching Moon ignited my interest. King of Sartar confirmed me as a fan.

Anyway, that's why I voted for Glorantha not RQ.

Quote from: Spinachcat;867667Has anyone read or played the 13th Age Glorantha?  I had wondered if 13th Age would have been a better match for Glorantha than RuneQuest.

I think the approach nowadays is to take whichever system you prefer and use it. So, HeroQuest, RuneQuest, 13th Age, all do Glorantha reasonably well and all can scratch particular itches.

Quote from: Spinachcat;867667Over the years, I've played a bit of RQ2 with other groups and discovered how wildly different the actual canon of Glorantha is compared to what we gleaned from the RQ2 books.

Sadly, what I learned about the "real" Glorantha didn't do much for me.

RQ2 had a lot of information based on sections of sourcebooks - Rulebook. Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror, Trollpack, RuneQuest Companion, Pavis, Big Rubble, Borderlands, Griffin Mountain and Snakepipe Hollow. The other supplements had a bit about Glorantha, but not much.

This knowledge has been expanded upon over a number of supplements and sourcebooks, the latest being the Guide to Glorantha. It has been revisited and expanded, occasionally changed, but the core nature of Glorantha has not changed appreciably.

The difference, I think, is that RQ2 had it built in as part of the game and the game came with a lot of atmosphere. Many of the RQ2 books simply dripped setting and that flavour has been lost, to a certain extent, in later books.

Quote from: nDervish;867722Voted "Love Runequest, don't care about Glorantha", but I really meant "Love Runequest, Glorantha can take a flying leap".

Goofy and the Ducks don't particularly bother me.  I loathe Campbell/Monomyth/Hero's Journey and canned metaplot, regardless of what setting may be at hand and I get the distinct impression that they're the creamy filling within Glorantha's hard outer shell of Narrativium (which I'm also less-than-fond of).

The Hero's Journey and other Cambellian fillips are useful for Heroquesting, which historically has fallen somewhere between only minimally present and entirely nonexistent in the majority of Runequest games. Runequest wasn't designed to emulate the Regiment killing power of Glorathan Heroes and their entourages, much less the fearsome ability of Harrek the Berserk.

Because of the more gritty focus of Runequest, the metaplot is easy to ignore or keep in the distant background if the PCs aren't great Heroes. It is no more a problem than knowing how WWII ended would be a problem for the players in a campaign designed to emulate the TV show Combat! or Band of Brothers. Unless you are running characters who expect to punch Hitler in the face to end WWII, the really big picture of the war's outcome is setting not something an infantry squad of PCs is supposed to change single handed.

If I was going to run a campaign where the players are Heroes on the order of Argrath, the Red Emperor, and the pals of Harrek the Berserk and Jar Eel the Razoress I'd jettison the details of the metaplot and focus on the conflict in the Dragon Pass letting the players take on the roles of the great Heroes. If I was going to run that sort of a campaign. I'm not sure that Runequest will be able to handle that level of power. It hasn't been able to in the past.

Quote from: soltakss;867763The difference, I think, is that RQ2 had it built in as part of the game and the game came with a lot of atmosphere. Many of the RQ2 books simply dripped setting and that flavour has been lost, to a certain extent, in later books.

I agree.

I voted for liking both, but wanting separate books.

The poll is a general question, but I think that the answer is influenced by current circumstances. While RQ6 isn't on the level of Pathfinder for popularity, it has a good following and a steady release of high-quality supplements that support multiple settings.

It feels like the current Chaosium crew is simply out of touch with what is going in the current gaming scene. They march in, grab the license back and announce that they are picking up where RQ3 left off. The seemed to forget that during all the years between, plenty of people have continued playing RQ and are more invested in what is happening with it now than what happened 20 years ago.

They never really seemed to consider that pulling the license of RQ6 and making a Glorantha-only book was going to make large part of the RQ fanbase very unhappy.

Even for Glorantha fans, we already had a Adventures in Glorantha on the way. It would already be out by now if Chaosium hadn't stepped in, so even some Glorantha fans resent the intrusion. They are waiting on a new edition, and while Moon Design does nice work, they take their time doing it. I'll be surprised if it shows up in 2016.

My point is that there is probably an unusually high bias against a Glorantha-specific RQ book because Chaosium has done it in a way that makes it feel like a threat to a great deal of RQ players.

If they had let TDM continue to print their RQ6 books with logo intact while also coming out with a Glorantha-specific core book, gamers would be a lot more welcoming of it.

When you add in how they managed to completely alienate the BGB/MW fans as well, they are cutting off a lot of potential customers. That said, I think their version of RQ will sell to enough people to make it worth while. They've just managed to divide the fanbase more than they needed to.

Quote from: Baulderstone;867778I voted for liking both, but wanting separate books.

The poll is a general question, but I think that the answer is influenced by current circumstances. While RQ6 isn't on the level of Pathfinder for popularity, it has a good following and a steady release of high-quality supplements that support multiple settings.

It feels like the current Chaosium crew is simply out of touch with what is going in the current gaming scene. They march in, grab the license back and announce that they are picking up where RQ3 left off. The seemed to forget that during all the years between, plenty of people have continued playing RQ and are more invested in what is happening with it now than what happened 20 years ago.

They never really seemed to consider that pulling the license of RQ6 and making a Glorantha-only book was going to make large part of the RQ fanbase very unhappy.

Even for Glorantha fans, we already had a Adventures in Glorantha on the way. It would already be out by now if Chaosium hadn't stepped in, so even some Glorantha fans resent the intrusion. They are waiting on a new edition, and while Moon Design does nice work, they take their time doing it. I'll be surprised if it shows up in 2016.

My point is that there is probably an unusually high bias against a Glorantha-specific RQ book because Chaosium has done it in a way that makes it feel like a threat to a great deal of RQ players.

If they had let TDM continue to print their RQ6 books with logo intact while also coming out with a Glorantha-specific core book, gamers would be a lot more welcoming of it.

When you add in how they managed to completely alienate the BGB/MW fans as well, they are cutting off a lot of potential customers. That said, I think their version of RQ will sell to enough people to make it worth while. They've just managed to divide the fanbase more than they needed to.

Actually all pretty compelling points (especially given that I am a BGB/MW fan and have no interest in Glorantha).

Quote from: Baulderstone;867778...
It feels like the current Chaosium crew is simply out of touch with what is going in the current gaming scene.  
...
Even for Glorantha fans, we already had a Adventures in Glorantha on the way. It would already be out by now if Chaosium hadn't stepped in...
...
When you add in how they managed to completely alienate the BGB/MW fans as well, they are cutting off a lot of potential customers.  
...
They've just managed to divide the fanbase more than they needed to.

Good points!