I'm in the same position as Madprofessor and others. I've got RQ6/Mythras, I've got the BGB, I've got Magic World and various Stormbringers/Elrics, CoC, Openquest and Renaissance... etc. AND I'm not a Gloranthaphile... so it's something of a non-event for me, but interesting non-Glorantha setting books might get my interest if Mythras doesn't get there first.
Add in that my Chaosium fanboy status has soured quite a bit and I don't really see much of my cash going towards them in the forseeable future.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;973385You may be confused with Elric of Melnibone, which was based upon Mongoose's RuneQuest, where they were used.

Correct. Mark, are you sure you're not getting Elric! (Chaosium) confused with Elric of Melnibone (Mongoose)?

Quote from: Loz;973351I've just checked my copy of Elric!. Opposed rolls aren't used. The resistance table is, for resolving tests between characteristics; and in combat, the level of success of the attacker and defender is compared on a simple matrix to determine the outcome. But in terms of 'roll under but high' that RQ6/Mythras uses for some rolls (as well as quite a few other game systems, I might add), opposed rolls are not present in Elric!.

The combat matrix is what I was referring to. I haven't checked Elric! yet, but I have checked Chaosium's "Big Gold Book" (copyright 2008) and it uses opposed resolution rolls for both combat and non-combat situations(pg 173), so Chaosium is still in the clear here.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;973348What would make someone, who is just getting into the RPG hobby, choose to buy RuneQuest over any other RPG?

Glorantha obviously. And they like BRP.

Quote from: markmohrfield;973405The combat matrix is what I was referring to. I haven't checked Elric! yet, but I have checked Chaosium's "Big Gold Book" (copyright 2008) and it uses opposed resolution rolls for both combat and non-combat situations(pg 173), so Chaosium is still in the clear here.

Mongoose Runequest (2006) also has opposed roll resolution, with highest of the two successes winning.

I'm getting quite the education in the evolution of BRP and Runequest.

Quote from: Raleel;973412Mongoose Runequest (2006) also has opposed roll resolution, with highest of the two successes winning.

Yep. It's where it was first a thing in RQ editions. It's just that the lead designer of this new RQ went to great pains to insist that the Mongoose versions of the game were non-entities in it's development - yet here is the same opposed rolls rule.

Quote from: markmohrfield;973405The combat matrix is what I was referring to. I haven't checked Elric! yet, but I have checked Chaosium's "Big Gold Book" (copyright 2008) and it uses opposed resolution rolls for both combat and non-combat situations(pg 173), so Chaosium is still in the clear here.

Big Gold Book is 2008.
Mongoose RuneQuest I is 2006.

Face it, any new development in the current RuneQuest was taken straight from the Editions they are claiming had no influence.

Pretty shitty, but then we knew that already, didn't we?

It's still a good adventure.

Quote from: markmohrfield;973405The combat matrix is what I was referring to. I haven't checked Elric! yet, but I have checked Chaosium's "Big Gold Book" (copyright 2008) and it uses opposed resolution rolls for both combat and non-combat situations(pg 173), so Chaosium is still in the clear here.

The combat matrix has been there since year dot as far as I can see for RQ/BRP, but it's not the same as the idea of an opposed roll - the compare-what-is-higher-but-still-successful idea. The opposed roll in the big gold book doesn't use this variation either, by the way. It compares the degrees of success (so lowest roll wins). The opposed roll rule used in RQ:G is lifted from the MRQ/RQ6/Mythras family of games, although the idea was in use in games like Pendragon previously too as well.

But it's not about whether or not the idea was plagiarised or not - I wouldn't care if it was. The issue for me is that the use of an opposed rolls such as this makes the use of Resistance table rolls redundant (archaic, even) - you don't need both for any mechanical reason. Including both, to me, just makes the game system more clunky than necessary, for reasons of nostalgia.  

It also makes myself, as a consumer, feel shortchanged, having invested in RQ6 not so long ago but then being told of the need to buy yet another new edition for no good reason, frankly. The various ideas and creative priorities in this new version of RQ could have been integrated into the old version without that much fuss and bother. RQ6 was still building momentum as a game, and Chaosium cut it short for reasons that, apparently, aren't really being held to now.

As I alluded to before, I don't think the new rules for CoC7E are that great either, but I'd have been a lot more pissed off if, as a consumer, I'd have waited for a late kickstarter to deliver and then have the new Chaosium team announce a new edition shortly after because they wanted to do it differently. They need to allow the new game space to grow. In a business sense, it's fair to make claim to their own IP and cut adrift The Design Mechanism (cruel as that may be), but to a consumer like me, I'm just not sure it's really acceptable if the changes don't seem particularly justifiable. I don't want to buy a new edition just for the sake of it.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;973454But it's not about whether or not the idea was plagiarised or not - I wouldn't care if it was. The issue for me is that the use of an opposed rolls such as this makes the use of Resistance table rolls redundant (archaic, even) - you don't need both for any mechanical reason. Including both, to me, just makes the game system more clunky than necessary, for reasons of nostalgia.  

Blackjack opposed rolls have been a common house rule in BRP/RQ since Pendragon came out. As you say, they make the Resistance Table largely redundant. It does mean that RQG has, if I count them correctly, five different ways of resolving issues: simple skill roll, opposed skill roll, combat skill roll matrix, resistance table and characteristic rolls. I find it hard to understand how that can be considered "light" or getting the system out of the way.

Thing is, if this had happened in 2003 I would be happy as Larry. Now I just feel somewhat grumpy about the whole thing.

Jeff at Chaosium talked a little about the reasons for both just recently, actually.

QuoteActually, the spread of result is why both are in. The two methods end up with different statistical spreads - and POW v POW has a certain expectation of result that we do not want to alter (and opposed resolution does alter that rather substantially - in a way that would change setting assumptions). Where the Resistance Table was traditionally used, we kept it. Where the Resistance Table was not used, and where just resolving the issue fast is desired (rather than preserving a certainly predictable spread of result), use a quick opposed resolution.

Make of that what you will.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;973454It also makes myself, as a consumer, feel shortchanged, having invested in RQ6 not so long ago but then being told of the need to buy yet another new edition for no good reason, frankly.

This is ultimately why I am irritated about the whole thing. We have had four editions in eleven years. Back before RQ:G was announced, I had people telling me they stayed away from RuneQuest because they were confused about editions, and Chaosium thought it was a good idea to throw another damn edition on the pile. And this is the least essential of them all. Even if Chaosium hadn't seemed so high-handed about the whole thing, it would have been irritating.

The move from MRQ 1 to 2 was a clear improvement, so that was a worthwhile jump. MRQ2 to RQ6 was a little more incremental, but still an improvement. It also benefitted from easy compatibility. If you stuck with your MRQ2 core, you could still easily use RQ6 supplements, and if you went to RQ6, all the MRQ2 supplements still work.

RQ:G is just different enough to have conversion issues, but it doesn't have any meaningful mechanical improvement. Seems a good place to stop buying RQ core books for now.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973527RQ:G is just different enough to have conversion issues, but it doesn't have any meaningful mechanical improvement. Seems a good place to stop buying RQ core books for now.

I had made that decision way back in 1980 when RQ2 came out... (though there weren't any conversion issues).

I have since softened and I did eventually acquire RQ2, though in part because I got a good deal on eBay getting RQ2, Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror, The RQ Companion, and most of the boxed sets (missing a few inserts and no TrollPak). I also bought all the RQ3 stuff back in the 90s. And I backed the kickstarter at the "all digital" level so I'm getting PDFs of everything as it comes out.

But I haven't sprung for any rules newer than Hero Quest (and I've dumped that and most of those supplements).

If I had been in a different financial position, I might have purchased MRQ and supplements.

Frank

I didn't know they decided Runequest = Glorantha. Does anyone know what that means, i.e., are the rules inextricably bound to the setting in such a way that using the game for anything but Glorantha would be a pain in the neck? I'm just curious as I have no interest in getting the game regardless.

Quote from: Dumarest;973561I didn't know they decided Runequest = Glorantha. Does anyone know what that means, i.e., are the rules inextricably bound to the setting in such a way that using the game for anything but Glorantha would be a pain in the neck? I'm just curious as I have no interest in getting the game regardless.

No idea. For almost 20 years. Stafford had been telling us that RuneQuest turned out not to be a good fit for Glorantha and that HeroQuest was the only game for the setting. I can only assume all the RQ2 Kickstarter money changed his mind.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973564No idea. For almost 20 years. Stafford had been telling us that RuneQuest turned out not to be a good fit for Glorantha and that HeroQuest was the only game for the setting. I can only assume all the RQ2 Kickstarter money changed his mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLWbp3w2eqM