Quote from: Elliot WilenI haven't read RQ Slayers but all indications are that it's got no relation to the RQ system or BRP.

Indeed, I should have been clearer about that. The Perrin version is much closer to the original.

Quote from: Elliot WilenI haven't read RQ Slayers but all indications are that it's got no relation to the RQ system or BRP.

It's wholly unrelated, the brand is there but the actual content (which is quite good) has nothing to do with Runequest itself.

It's worth checking out, but it would be better with a different name.

Quote from: Consonant DudeOne is Steve Perrin's Quest. It should still be on his personal website and beats the living shit out of MRQ. It compares well to BRP, IMO.

Only the Character Creation is openly available on line:

http://www.perrinworlds.com/SPQRCharacters.pdf

I'd link to the page rather than the file but the site is built in frames. VERY 1997.

The 'rest' of the rules are apparently available via a PayPal subscription...but I say 'apparently' as I coughed up the $25 years ago. The PayPal payment was accepted, but I never received anything else, despite emailing Steve via both the email account on the SPQR page and the PayPal address several times.

I will say that what I have seen looks pretty good; it would have been ever so nice to see the whole thing (or at least more of it). Or to get my $25 back, one or the other.

Quote from: Consonant DudeThere is also Runequest Slayer Something that Avalon Hill was supposed to publish and is now available freely. Personally, I think the original Runequest had much more flair. But hey, it's free and it's better than buying Mongoose crap.

I...can't bring myself to commend the content of Slayers, at all. Hunt it down on PDF if you will, but I found it very amateurish. Who knows, maybe RuneSlayer (as it is now known) might be an improvement.

http://www.thalcos.com/rq.htm



There's also actually a PDF of the aborted Jovanovic system out there - what would have become RuneQuest: Adventures in Glorantha. It's...interesting, in places, but was looking far more like Rolemaster or even Powers and Perils than RuneQuest. Worth hunting down for RQ completists though. (If you want a copy and can give me access to an FTP server, I'll upload it for you, but it's just too big for email.)

- Q

Quote from: jgantsSo Mongoose listed to that feedback about as well as they listened to everything else?  

Apparently so...

God help them, I even went through every spell in the book and ticked off the runic affiliations and pointed out the exact degree of imbalance with what they were suggesting.

Quote from: Elliot WilenBTW, has anyone else caught the news that Mongoose has scooped the Elric license and will be doing it up MRQ style?

I remember some bit where they were talking about Eternal Champion, but I don't remember it explicitly stating Elric.

For MRQ, so far I have passed on getting the core books at half price 3-4 times. Every other time I go to that store I take a look and put the books back. It'd still be cheaper, easier on the eyes, and more GM-friendly IMO to just print out the MRQWiki PDFs based on the SRDs. :cool:

MRQWiki PDFs

I've been tempted to get the cheap softcover printout of GORE esp. since the  PDF has that dripping blood background. >.< Still not sure if I were to run a BRP short run thing if I'd just point players who don't have a BRP or MRQ book to CoC Quickstart or GORE. Or just make my own based off of MRQ/GORE. :pundit:

Quote from: Casey777It'd still be cheaper, easier on the eyes, and more GM-friendly IMO to just print out the MRQWiki PDFs based on the SRDs.

It's worth noting that significant elements have been dropped from the core rulebook in composing the SRD. Not just flavour(less?) text, either, but in some cases examples or notes without which a rule makes little or no sense. I've also noticed that a short but significant section on more experienced characters has been lost in the transition to SRD...which is a bizarre decision, given that including it would only have encouraged third-party-compatibility with Mongoose's later RQ releases.

And talking of things missing in MRQ...not one single creature write-up in the core rulebook mentions anything about the magic a creature might have.

- Q

Quote from: Casey777I remember some bit where they were talking about Eternal Champion, but I don't remember it explicitly stating Elric.

Yeah, but that has to include Elric, right? Having the Eternal Champion licence but not being able to do anything with Elric would be like having the rights to do absolutely anything with the entire Star Wars universe so long as Darth Vader isn't involved - sure, Elric's not the only exciting aspect of the Eternal Champion books, and he might not even be the best one, but he's far and away the most popular of the protagonists.

Quote from: QuireIt's worth noting that significant elements have been dropped from the core rulebook in composing the SRD

And talking of things missing in MRQ...not one single creature write-up in the core rulebook mentions anything about the magic a creature might have.

So both the core books and the SRD are arrrgh? Sounds like a double barreled way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Quote from: WarthurYeah, but that has to include Elric, right?

That'd greatly help the line because Elric's the only Eternal Champion most people are likely to have heard or seen anything about. Me I have 4 editions of Stormbringer and 1st and 5th edition are very good in their own ways. :cool:

I went back to the Mongoose forums to check my memory (which was that Elric was avoided). Didn't find any statement from Mongoose about Eternal Champion but it does seem like some sort of 3-way arrangement was worked out. :raise: (example thread)

I'd go for a gonzo Hawkmoon bit. I'm just not sure Mongoose could pull it off without it somehow turning dull, gaudy, and muddy. :deflated:

Quote from: Casey777So both the core books and the SRD are arrrgh? Sounds like a double barreled way to shoot yourself in the foot.

About the only difference from the SRDs and the actual rulebooks is that the actual rulebooks have some more sentences to tie the topics together.  But that's about it - they are essentially a printed version of the SRD.  No flavor text, no extra stuff, etc.

Quote from: Casey777MRQWiki PDFs

Hm, that's actually a much better layout than the published books.

Quote from: BalbinusHm, that's actually a much better layout than the published books.

Not only that, but note how they managed to put the main SRD and the companion SRD into *a single 82-page document*.

The core MRQ rulebook and the Companion come to 216 pages. I *cannot believe* that the 134 extra pages consist of art and additional explanations, examples, clarifications and so forth - a lot of that bloat has to come from MRQ's ugly-as-sin layout.

Let's be really generous and assume that half of those 134 pages consist of illustrations and examples (this is bullshit - the MRQ core rules don't nearly contain enough examples - but let's roll with it) - that's still 67 pages of bloat thanks to the layout. 216-67 = 149 pages. Throw in a character sheet, some more clarifications, and perhaps a really simple example scenario or some stripped-down monster stats, and that brings you to 160 pages - enough to publish the MRQ core rules in one, single rulebook, comparable to the core RQ2 and RQ3 books.

It is my firm belief, based on this, that the splitting of the MRQ core rules into the main rulebook and the companion was based solely on making money - if you buy the MRQ main rulebook, you pretty much either have to buy the Companion as well or settle with a sparse and incomplete game (with *less* content than, say, the RQ2 core rules - now *that* book had an excellent layout). Or, you know, download the SRDs and realise what a complete waste of money the core rules are.

Mongoose Publishing: bringing raging unprofessionalism back to the mainstream game industry!

Quote from: WarthurIt is my firm belief, based on this, that the splitting of the MRQ core rules into the main rulebook and the companion was based solely on making money - if you buy the MRQ main rulebook, you pretty much either have to buy the Companion as well or settle with a sparse and incomplete game (with *less* content than, say, the RQ2 core rules - now *that* book had an excellent layout). Or, you know, download the SRDs and realise what a complete waste of money the core rules are.

Absolutely, it's crippleware.  The SRD combines the main book and companion, so making it actually more usable.  In splitting the two, Mongoose make one go to two separate books in order to do chargen potentially, it's a wholly needless split that actually damages utility and is clearly only there as a revenue generating tool.

I agree with everything in your post, but I thought this bit worth reinforcing because it is such a bizarre way to produce a quality product, but then they haven't.

About the Elric news, you can find it on rpg.net, Moorcock's forums, and (I believe) at Mongoose. Here's an RPG.net thread.

Quote from: jgantsAbout the only difference from the SRDs and the actual rulebooks is that the actual rulebooks have some more sentences to tie the topics together.  But that's about it - they are essentially a printed version of the SRD.  No flavor text, no extra stuff, etc.

Sorry to dispute this, but it's a lot more than a few linking sentences.

Quote from: WarthurLet's be really generous and assume that half of those 134 pages consist of illustrations and examples (this is bullshit - the MRQ core rules don't nearly contain enough examples - but let's roll with it)

I'm not about to count words in the core rulebook in order to make concrete comparisons - but I'd estimate there is less than half the words in the SRD than there is in the rulebook. And a quantity of that is not flavour text or mere examples, but actual rules, conditions, source, etc. Some of the reduced rules barely make sense. The Skills chapter is a good example; if anyone hasn't looked at the rulebook yet, try reading the SRD first and you'll see what I mean.*

Of course, the 30mm+ margins on the core rulebook bloat the fuck out of it too.

- Q

* Conversely, there's the ridiculous combat example to consider too. Two pages of example that often contradict the rules that went before it.