So I've heard a rumor that Lightning Source (the printers for DTRPG) are going to be increasing their prices at the end of the year. Hardback prices should go up by about $5 and softback prices should remain unchanged. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

This is what I got in my October Publisher Newsletter

QuotePRINT-ON-DEMAND PRICE INCREASE
Due to Lightning Source price changes, there will be a 3% increase coming to POD books on OBS sites. However, we were able to re-negotiate for bulk discounts, so those will also be coming (back) to our sites soon.

We will keep you updated with more information as we receive it.

Well, that's not too terrible, is it?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1114776Well, that's not too terrible, is it?

Depends. This on top of a price increase or re-organization last year. It was not a big change but it was notable. Also they cut off bulk discounts a bit.

The main issue is the price of paper.

https://www.fssi-ca.com/top-6-factors-affecting-the-cost-of-paper/
https://www.apdsp.org/paper-prices-what-the-heck-is-going-on/
https://www.smithcorona.com/blog/paper-mills-increase-prices/

Quote from: RPGPundit;1114776Well, that's not too terrible, is it?

It is probably more annoying for publishers than fans I am guessing. I don't do my printing through OBS, so so far, this has not impacted ma. But most publishers I talk with are perpetually annoyed at Lightning Source. This certainly isn't going to lessen that annoyance.

Awesome, now I can pay even more for a simple black and white book with a color cover to take three weeks to get to me.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1115170It is probably more annoying for publishers than fans I am guessing. I don't do my printing through OBS, so so far, this has not impacted ma. But most publishers I talk with are perpetually annoyed at Lightning Source. This certainly isn't going to lessen that annoyance.

Yes, I can relate to being pissed off at Lightning Source.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1115930Yes, I can relate to being pissed off at Lightning Source.

Some of the issues you can run into with them are terribly frustrating (especially if it is a formatting issue like Ink Coverage/Density). I always get proofs because you never know how things will come out

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1115947Some of the issues you can run into with them are terribly frustrating (especially if it is a formatting issue like Ink Coverage/Density). I always get proofs because you never know how things will come out

Problem is, as was explained to me by an author who learned this the hard way, that depending on your timeline, a proof copy may not save you with POD services. The reason being that they outsource to different printers depending on what is open or fits the order. Hence why you can get a pretty good proof and your actual product looks alot less fine.

Quote from: Omega;1116248Problem is, as was explained to me by an author who learned this the hard way, that depending on your timeline, a proof copy may not save you with POD services. The reason being that they outsource to different printers depending on what is open or fits the order. Hence why you can get a pretty good proof and your actual product looks alot less fine.

Oh fuck?  Really?  I am trying to get into the rpg industry with my own stuff and your telling me that I have one more thing to be paranoid.  Tell me this am I playing it smart to have .13 inch of bleed, or do I need more?

EDIT: Yes I am new to page layout as I just got Affinity Publisher this month because it was on discount.  Pretty good program from what I seen.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1116252Oh fuck?  Really?  I am trying to get into the rpg industry with my own stuff and your telling me that I have one more thing to be paranoid.  Tell me this am I playing it smart to have .13 inch of bleed, or do I need more?

EDIT: Yes I am new to page layout as I just got Affinity Publisher this month because it was on discount.  Pretty good program from what I seen.

Yeah really. Theres a couple of sites and vids up now on the subject. It is really easy to miss too as not all PODs or small press publishers even mention this. I think some just assume everyone knew it worked that way for many POD services.

This may be why some companies have such odd formatting requirements. So that one file can fit different factories. Even if that fit produces less than stellar prints.

Personal advice is to find an actual factory and get an estimate from them. But I know that is not an option for most.

Quote from: Omega;1116334Personal advice is to find an actual factory and get an estimate from them. But I know that is not an option for most.

The three problem is up front cost, distribution, and collecting on sales. If you are prepared to manage all three then you can ignore PoD. But if you want to publish in the time for a hobby, PoD despite it flaws is your best front especially in accompanied by a store front.

To be fair however all three things I mentioned have companies devoted to providing these services. So it not like you have to rent storage, or pay people to box up books. But you do need capital up front to pay for the printing and to pay the fees for the other services.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1116252Oh fuck?  Really?  I am trying to get into the rpg industry with my own stuff and your telling me that I have one more thing to be paranoid.  Tell me this am I playing it smart to have .13 inch of bleed, or do I need more?

EDIT: Yes I am new to page layout as I just got Affinity Publisher this month because it was on discount.  Pretty good program from what I seen.

Look at the format guidelines of the printer you are planning on using. If you are using LS, or think you might, you should read their file creation guide. That tells you everything you need to know. And if you don't follow those guidelines to the T, you will have issues. Also keep in mind, the guidelines change depending on what you are printing (for example color and black and white have very different interior page guidelines).

Quote from: Omega;1116248Problem is, as was explained to me by an author who learned this the hard way, that depending on your timeline, a proof copy may not save you with POD services. The reason being that they outsource to different printers depending on what is open or fits the order. Hence why you can get a pretty good proof and your actual product looks alot less fine.

I think this is going to depend on the printer. My experience with lightning source is if you follow the guidelines, you won't end up with major problems (like margin errors or something). But there is still normal variance. I don't know if lightning source outsources*, my impression is everything is done in-house. But normal variance can cause an issue when it comes to stuff like dithering (Estar can speak on this much more expertly than me). So if you use certain kinds of art, especially stuff with gray shades, that will sometimes print faded. LS black and white printing has problems similar to what you see on a photo-copier with certain uses of ink. Their guidelines account for that though and they tell you what to do in terms of colors and ink settings to reduce the possibility of stuff like dithering.

One book outsources to Lightning Source, perhaps that is what your friend was thinking about? (possible things at LS have changed and I am not aware).

But my experience on this is proofs are going to save you from catastrophic things provided you are within the boundaries of error. For example if your margins are not inside the boundary of error, you might get three printing that look great, but a fourth printing could show could cut into the text if that is too close to the margin. But I don't believe that is a product of using different printers, as much as it due to a lack of precision of the method they use (which is why you are supposed to have something like a 1 inch margin)

EDIT: I should say, human errors and machine errors can still arise. I once had a book where they printed the wrong interior content (I believe for just one printing). So it had the cover of our game but the inside was all 18th century fashion material. Apparently collectors like that sort of printing error and the way I found out about it was from someone who bought it for its collector value.