Quote from: MarcoFinally, having done combined-arms live-fire exercises (CALFX), I think that the psychological element of combat is:
(a) under-represented in games
(b) might not be so fun to do with rules unless they were really, really good*

That's the problem with all RPG combat. Doing nothing in a combat round isn't really an option. It's not like melee combat is all hacking and slashing, too. You  try to find a weak spot, you circle around, you try to catch your breath.
But when you codify this in a rule system, why should I just stand around? There's only so much gloating you can do...

Burning Wheel has a little bit too much hesitation, if you ask me.

The Dark Eye rules use "Courage" as a stat to determine your initiative. That didn't work out all that bad...

The burst autofire rule in the StarCluster System has you making one roll to hit. For each bullet after the first, you add 10 to the original roll, and if it still is under the TN, it hits also. So if your TN is 65, and you roll a 20, all three shots will hit at 20, 30, and 40, If you roll a 47, two shots will hit at 47, 57, and 67. If you roll a 60, one shot will hit at 60, 70, and 80.
Weapon damage is set by a modifier, say +15 for a submachine gun or pistol. Damage is always %d+modifier, so the huge random factor in damage does two things - it allows a sort of hit location by damage, and it allows for the fact that sometimes one bullet will bring a man down, while another time you may need four or five.
With the initiative system allowing you to simulate aim or its lack - by going slower than your roll, you can boost your TN or your damage roll by the same amount, by going faster you take rush your shot and take a penalty to your TN or your damage - you have a fair amount of verisimilitude with a simple system.
That was my goal, at any rate.

-clash

I'm reading Cold Space in preparation of a review, and I'm with you on this one, Clash. It's damn good.

Oh, by the way, since we're talking about the psychological aspect of combat, I have to give my vote of approval to Twilight 2000's Coolness Under Fire system. Green fighters tend to "freeze" when bullets start whizzing over head, this gets better with time.

Quote from: MarcoThe thing I like about GURPS is how the damage done by weapon varies widely--assault rifles are far more likely to produce a pile of bodies than a 9mm. However: this isn't "realism," it's "meeting my expectations" (or maybe "versimilitude").

QFT.

I think that's the key right there: do the rules meet your expectations of modeling a firefight in a way that seems realistic and 'crunchy' enough to you personally?  

me, i don't want charts on windage, zeroing, etc.  Some people do, but i suspect those type of people would be better served on the range as opposed to the gaming table.

Quote from: BalbinusUnisystem (though do you roll for each bullet fired in burst or autofire mode?  That seems a bit odd to me)

No, you roll a single roll.

Unisystem's central mechanic is a single d10, plus your ability plus your skill.  These usually range from 1-6 for normal humans.  A 9 is required for a basic success.  There's a chart that shows how many successes the roll gets if you roll higher than that.  Its 1 success for every 2 over for the first few levels then goes up to 3 at (IIRC)4 or 5 successes.

When you fire a single shot round, you do an amount of base damage for the type of weapon, with a bonus for the number of successes.  (I usually steal Cinematic's rule that it's one point per level, simpler that way).  So let's say I have a pistol that does 16 damage.  I have a 3 in dex and a 4 in my gun skill and there's no other modifiers.  I roll the d10 and roll a 6.  6+3+4=13, three successes on the chart.  So I do 16+3=19 damage with the shot.  Against a living target this is doubled to 38.

Now lets say we have a submachine gun that does the same damage.  I make the exact same roll and get three successes but this time I'm firing a three shot burst.  With three successes, rather than giving me a bonus on damage each indicates another round hit.  The target was hit by three rounds, so they take 16x3=48 damage, again doubled to 96 against a living target.  Given that normal humans have 30-50 life points, getting shot with a machine gun hurts.  

Most systems in an attempt at balance makes full auto or burst fire actually worse.  Machine guns aren't balanced, I don't have a problem with this.  These rules make using burst fire a really good idea most of the time.  There's times when it isn't better - you can't target body areas (kind of important in a zombie game), you go through ammo faster, and you can't make aimed shots.

Did anyone ever succeed in running a rather violent Aftermath campaign? I'm working in IT, and even I get afraid of the flowchart...

Quote from: SosthenesDid anyone ever succeed in running a rather violent Aftermath campaign? I'm working in IT, and even I get afraid of the flowchart...

haha holy crap, forgot about that...yeah, no i never even managed to run the damn thing. (much like The Morrow Project...E-Factor, Blood Types...WHAAAA?!?  i think we ended up using AD&D's system to run Liberation at Riverton.  so, were we the first to do AD&D Modern??)

I quite like rolemaster modern.  It's pretty chart intensive, but only in a "read the number of the relevant column" sense.  If that's a trade you're willing to make then its nice - a lot of differentiation, suitably deadly results, pretty good modelling of modern armour, single rolls for autofire against single targets, simple enhanced ammunition rules....