Quote from: Sacrosanct;651712Monkey Bars: Stationary, stable, and built for that sort of thing

Chandelier:  none of the above.


Seriously, apply some common sense and it's not that hard to figure these things out.

I see for you sense isn't so common.

Didn't you go through an obstacle course in basic training?  How many crashed and burned on the ropes you had to climb and swing on?  You have a climbing rope in grade/high school?  You have a lot of crash and burns there as well?  You make everyone roll a Dex check to climb a rope?  You make everyone roll a Dex check in order to mount a horse?

For the record I see you have little knowledge of how a chandelier works, especially a chandelier for the time we are discussing.  A chandelier was hung over a rafter or crossbeam, not hung from the ceiling.  You know hence the cut the rope attached to the chandelier,  that rope was used to raise and lower the chandelier in order to light it.  If you think the chandelier is going to break through the rafter or crossbeam and come crashing down, you're an even bigger idiot than we already know.   Making the player roll a Dex check in order to grab and swing it is moronic, when 'common sense' would have you make a save or other 'ruling' to see if the actual chandelier can support the weight of the PC.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;651714It isn't that difficult to hit someone with a sword either but we roll a die for that.

Think so?  Looks like someone has spent a little too much time at Ren fairs.  Amazing what happens to people when someone is trying to kill them with a 4 foot hunk of metal in their hands.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;651714So if the adventurers were fighting some goblins in a castle hall instead of some locals in a bar it would be fine to waive the requirement for a hit roll because someone swung on a chandelier? In B/X a goblin and a normal man have very similar statistics. Why would one be combat and the other not?

I didn't realize swinging on a chandelier was combat.

Pardon me, I didn't realize you were an expert on chandelier swinging, with a lot of practical experience.

Oh, and there seems to be plenty of youtube videos of people failing to swing on chandeliers, but I guess that doesn't matter.  Nor does the fact that yes, plenty of guys fell off the swinging rope obstacle when I was in.

And you still have yet to explain why you think a tavern brawl isn't combat, but at the same time are imparting a -2 penalty to initiative to cut a rope during a tavern brawl.

Quote from: Sommerjon;651760Think so?  Looks like someone has spent a little too much time at Ren fairs.  Amazing what happens to people when someone is trying to kill them with a 4 foot hunk of metal in their hands.

so you don't need attack rolls when...er...attacking with a sword?

QuoteI didn't realize swinging on a chandelier was combat.

Using the chandelier to swing into the target, kicking them.

Holy hell, do you even read things before responding to them?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;651711There is always room for debate and such on these things. I don't think all systems need to require rolls all the time for things. Personally, I believe jumping on a chandelier and swinging has a reasonable enough chance of failure that a roll is called for (same for cracking someone upside the head). It is also a risky move, because you can fall, so I would see that as a good reason for having there be a roll.

And what would be the outcome of the roll?  Is it just pass/fail?

Is it just a dex check?
Is it first a dex check in order to jump, then str check in order to grab and hold onto the chandelier, then another dex check to see if you can swing?
Is it first a dex check in order to jump, then str check in order to grab and hold onto the chandelier, then a save for the chandelier to support the weight, then a save for the rafter/crossbeam to support the weight, then a save for the rope to support the weight, then another dex check to see if you can swing?

This is like the kind of GM-player back and forth that would have me folding up the game quietly but quickly.

MY way of pretending is better than your way!

::sucks on dice::

Quote from: Sacrosanct;651762Pardon me, I didn't realize you were an expert on chandelier swinging, with a lot of practical experience.

Oh, and there seems to be plenty of youtube videos of people failing to swing on chandeliers, but I guess that doesn't matter.  Nor does the fact that yes, plenty of guys fell off the swinging rope obstacle when I was in.

Post 15 of them that meet the criteria of D&D.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;651762And you still have yet to explain why you think a tavern brawl isn't combat, but at the same time are imparting a -2 penalty to initiative to cut a rope during a tavern brawl.

Because your not being consistent, drawing and swinging your weapon is a -2 or it's not.

Quote from: Sommerjon;651764And what would be the outcome of the roll?  Is it just pass/fail?

Is it just a dex check?
Is it first a dex check in order to jump, then str check in order to grab and hold onto the chandelier, then another dex check to see if you can swing?
Is it first a dex check in order to jump, then str check in order to grab and hold onto the chandelier, then a save for the chandelier to support the weight, then a save for the rafter/crossbeam to support the weight, then a save for the rope to support the weight, then another dex check to see if you can swing?

Depends on how deep the system is. I would prefer a single roll for the entire action (rather than multiple rolls for each little portion).

If it isn't covered in the rules and the GM comes up with something that is reasonable on the fly it isn't going to eat at me if he just goes with a dex check and makes it pass/fail.

Quote from: The Traveller;651765This is like the kind of GM-player back and forth that would have me folding up the game quietly but quickly.

Agreed. This is not a crowd I'd be interested in gaming with.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;651763so you don't need attack rolls when...er...attacking with a sword?

Holy hell, do you even read things before responding to them?

"It isn't that difficult to hit someone with a sword either but we roll a die for that."
"Think so? Looks like someone has spent a little too much time at Ren fairs. Amazing what happens to people when someone is trying to kill them with a 4 foot hunk of metal in their hands."
Here's me disagreeing with someone that thinks it's easy to hit someone with a sword. and somehow you get to "so you don't need attack rolls when...er...attacking with a sword?"
Holy hell, do you even read things before responding to them?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;651763Using the chandelier to swing into the target, kicking them.

Holy hell, do you even read things before responding to them?

When someone is being absurd, not really.  You do realize you are talking about someone who hates storywanking, but has no problem with plot.  You do realize you can't have one without the other.

Quote from: Sommerjon;651764And what would be the outcome of the roll?  Is it just pass/fail?

Is it just a dex check?
Is it first a dex check in order to jump, then str check in order to grab and hold onto the chandelier, then another dex check to see if you can swing?
Is it first a dex check in order to jump, then str check in order to grab and hold onto the chandelier, then a save for the chandelier to support the weight, then a save for the rafter/crossbeam to support the weight, then a save for the rope to support the weight, then another dex check to see if you can swing?

I think a simpler approach is better. Just have the character make a dex check, acrobatics skill roll, whatever is reasonable.

There is no reason to assign precise mechanics and procedures for an improvised action like swinging on a chandelier.

Regular melee would involve the same factors; is the ground wet? Windy today? Tired from lack of sleep? your sword is of lesser steel than the enemy, will it break?

Most rpg's simplify the physics of reality to make the game playable.

Quote from: Sommerjon;651760Think so?  Looks like someone has spent a little too much time at Ren fairs.  Amazing what happens to people when someone is trying to kill them with a 4 foot hunk of metal in their hands.

What happens when you're trying to throw soup in a dude's face and he's not inclined to let that happen?

Quote from: The Traveller;651765This is like the kind of GM-player back and forth that would have me folding up the game quietly but quickly.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;651775Agreed. This is not a crowd I'd be interested in gaming with.

Nod. I think this is demonstrating what I was talking about much better than I ever could have with a made up example.

It's a case in point, actually. Nobody would enjoy having to sit down through an argument like this.

Quote from: Benoist;651806Nod. I think this is demonstrating what I was talking about much better than I ever could have with a made up example.

It's a case in point, actually. Nobody would enjoy having to sit down through an argument like this.

Lucky for you, I don't think I will be gaming with him any time soon.

Lucky for me, I've never had to deal with people like him before at the table, believe it or not.