Someone shows up at your OP game with a character that is infinitely powerful. They found a rule loophole, and it seems legal.
What would you do?



"No, not at my table, I don't want to play with you."

Depending on circumstances:
"Uh? That's legal? Interesting. I will have to houserule this, please make another character."
or
"Hahaha! That's a good one! Now show me your real character."
or
"Nope."

I haven't run an open campaign since 1981, and I don't currently run point build games (running OD&D and Classic Traveller).

My OD&D gaming is all play by post, and I roll all the dice, so I give the players a 6 stats, gold, and once they've picked race, social standing. Really no possible way to abuse chargen here.

My Classic Traveller gaming is a bit different, I have the following ways people roll up characters:

(A) By hand using the books on their own time
(B) By hand on Google Hangouts
(C) Using the online chargen

With method A, I had one player who tried to bend the rules, his PC really wasn't over powered, so  was going to ignore it, but then I had to stop running, he was going to play in the next GM's campaign, but got scared off when asked to roll a character face to face.

Another player in a play by post has a suspicious character, and that's a problem. Same play by post campaign has another player who used method C until he got a scout ship. This campaign is dangerously close to collapsing due to my frustration with the chargen. It eventually may just wither and die...

All the other play by post Traveller I'm running, they players have either used A or C, but with C if they needed to "cheat" to get a ship or a character with particular skills, either used my supported cheat methods, or were reasonable (taking the first character with a particular skill for example), or rolled up a few and picked their favorite.

All of this was part of my drive to extend the online chargen. It now makes different mustering out choices to make it easier to get a ship (the original code rolled up to 3 cash benefit rolls first, making a Scout need at least 4 terms to have a chance of a ship) and also adding a specific "hunt" mode where you can specify one of a handful of simple search criteria and it rolls until it meets that criteria. No more rolling hundreds of characters, ignoring the first one that meets the needs (hey, if you've already hit refresh a hundred times, why not a few more and get a really awesome PC). Without this mechanism, all the scout PCs with a ship have been 7 terms, with the cheat mechanism, it's more likely to get one with 3-4 terms.

Frank

I generally don't run games that have many exploitable loopholes in char gen. I don't run open tables where people can just bring in any character they like.

I would probably disallow a character that seemed built to exploit a loophole. If I had to let such a character in the game, well the loophole runs both ways...sell hello to my little NPC friend...

Why would I play with him? I'd tell him he's WON THE FUCKING GAME and move on.

Same as Davethelost.  I don't play that sort of game, and I don't allow "any character you want."

Hell, that's one of the reasons I like OD&Ds 3d6 in order six times.  Your first die roll is strength, period.  Your second is intelligence, period.

Optimize away, Cupcake.

This is one of the challenges of Open Play. You can see how creators of Organized Play wrack their brains coming up with those rules!

I would be clear and honest upfront. Explain why you feel the character build is over-powered and talk up the potential negative impact it's going to have on the game and the other players. I would then offer to sit down and either modify the character to be more in line with the others, or offer them a pre-gen, or give them a few to make up a new character. You understand that it's "legal" from the system perspective but as the GM it's your job to screen characters for just these kinds of potential exploits.

I would encourage my newly found Munchkin that I want them at my table! Just not in a disruptive, power-gaming way. I would reinforce that the hobby thrives on EVERYONE having fun at the table, and generally characters "optimized" to this extent make the game NOT FUN for me (and most of my players). If they get confrontational I generally disinvite them. I had an issue like this in one of my OP games I ran at a game store. I had to boot a player right at character generation because they were obviously there to just Munchkin out a set of numbers and then use those numbers as an opportunity to ruin everyone's day.

If they sincerely want to play, they will compromise and find something that fits. If not, you just found a nice screening method for bad players.

Players who abuse loopholes generally hate when loopholes are used against them. IME, best to toss them upfront.

I'd see how it goes for a session and if it's obviously OP, then I'd raise it at the end, and suggest a tweak to fix the loophole - using the experience in play to demonstrate why it needs to be fixed.

It's one of the many reasons why I don't play in games with strangers very often.  When I run a game for strangers, I usually provide pre gens.

Useful for finding the event horizon boundaries of any system, but nothing worth rewarding. A lone player running God Mode GM-Usurper! means dead table, always and forever, no exceptions.

Basically it becomes a question, "Who runs your table, the GM or the system?" If it is the system, then what's the point of having a human there. Because judgment is unnecessary you just abdicated your purpose for being present.

So remember the most important word in a GM's repertoire is, "No." This establishes boundaries and a sense of equanimity for all involved. Everyone socially adjusted will thank you, likely even the munchkin, and that's the only group worth worrying about. (Because you aren't getting paid for therapy. )

Quote from: bryce0lynch;1008125Someone shows up at your OP game with a character that is infinitely powerful. They found a rule loophole, and it seems legal.
What would you do?

"OK, that's a clever one, and I'll think of a houserule! Now show me the character you prepared for play, will you?"

Quote from: bryce0lynch;1008125Someone shows up at your OP game with a character that is infinitely powerful. They found a rule loophole, and it seems legal.
What would you do?

I don't think I've ever played a game in which being infinitely powerful was possible; I'd most likely stop playing such a game, but if it's just one rule that turned out to mean something the designer did not intend and I like the game otherwise, I would just throw out the rule.

But also consider that people sometimes overreact to things that turn out not to be that powerful; the Moon Druid in 5e, for example, or caster supremacy in lots of D&D-ish games. When I did have some players from another table whose DM had not showed up, I let them play at my table; it turned out their DM allowed them to play home-brew character classes, but they were ultimately no more powerful than standard ones would have been, so it wasn't actually a problem. I probably wouldn't have allowed the characters if I'd known they were not standard up front.

Back when we played OD&D, we would refuse items, levels, ability scores and even characters who migrted from a Monty Haul-ish campaign ("You got how many artifacts from a DM nicknamed Pushover?") if they were too powerful or just didn't suit our campaign. Not really a problem; anyone who is not willing to start a new character is not worth playing with.

Infinatly powerful?  I'm not playing in any games where a charcter could possibly be infiantly powerful.  I reject the premise.

A build you haven't seen before.  Takes advantage of a cleave trick.  Has an effective way of placing their strenght against the monsters weakness, sure.  

Flip the OP around and read it un-charitably and it says. "A new player showed up and he won't jump through my hoops, what a dick head."

Now if this person showed up at my table with a twinked out min maxed munchkin.  I would first judge their appearance, hygiene, social presentation and jokes.  If I didn't want to play with them I wouldn't.  Maybe you can't do that at open play.  Then I would look at their character if it fits its in.  If not then no.  No you can't play a Minatuar.  Yes you can play a cavalier but the game starts with a ship wreck so no horse, not plate, maybe no sword, I've got a pre-made ranger if you prefer.  If they found a loop hole, well its not going to work.   Its not a computer game or a court of law, rules don't matter. My understanding of the world is all that matters, and your understanding.  Try a loop hole that doesn't make sense to me and I'll tell you that.  Nope, thats not how it works.  Page 66 sub paragraph C.  Ok hmmm.  Nope that's not what it says.  Or hey you're right it does say that.  Thats dumb.  We're not doing that.  

But you know what, no one builds an infinatly powerful character, not even in Amber.  The edges and feats and optimizations people do figure out don't matter that much let them play.

Quote from: bryce0lynch;1008125Someone shows up at your OP game with a character that is infinitely powerful. They found a rule loophole, and it seems legal.
What would you do?

Put on my Viking Hat and demonstrate that the Infinite Power of a Player is no match for the Infinite Power of the GM.