So, with the direction my Rifts campaign was heading, I decided to buy the new Hades dimension book for Rifts.  I always thought it sounded cool and wanted to get it anyways.  I found it on e-bay for a bit cheaper than MSRP and decided to buy it.

I finally came in the mail yesterday and I sat down to look it over.  Moments later, I realized why I hadn't heard much about it online.  It's not that good.

So, to express my disappointment and annoyance, and as a warning to others, I present to you the following rant/mini-review:

First, despite the fact even the Palladium uber-fans hate him, Kevin is still using Kent Burles' art. Seriously, is it really that hard to find decent artists for these books? At least most of the creature art is done by Jeffry Russell this time instead of the godawful crap that is Terry Bradshaw's art (I'm not a huge Russell fan, but at least his stuff is passable).

Then, there's the concept of Hades. What cool concept for the demon dimension have Carl and Kevin come up with you ask? Is it something really new and innovative? Or at least vague and suggestible like the AD&D manual of the planes entries?

No, it a fucking mirror image of the Palladium Fantasy world. That's right, the big concept is a fucking hack writer cliche. The entire dimension of demons is just one small planet that looks like the Palladium Fantasy planet. What a load of shit.

So the book must be filled to the brim with cool world information and new demons right?

Nope, wrong again. There's a passable amount of world information, but not much in the way of cool locations. And everything is related in terms of the Palladium Fantasy game/world. Hello, this was supposed to be a fucking Rifts book!

Here's my problem. I wanted something that explained things like where the Calgary, St. Louis, and Chicago super-rifts went. You know, stuff that ties in the demon areas in Rifts with the demon dimension of Hades. Instead, everything talks about how the only real way out of Hades is to the Land of the Damned in the PF world.

So what about St. Louis, Calgary, etc? Could we at least try to be fucking consistent on the world information?

Then there's the demons. The book goes into great lengths to explain that most things called demons aren't really demons. So all those things with "demon" in the fucking name from the Creatures of Chaos book - not real demons, apparently.

See, I thought the Hades "dimension" would explain how the various factions of "demons" - like the ones from the Chaos book, the Chinese demons, the Japanese demons, etc - all had their own locations inside the dimension. A demon cosmology of sorts would have been cool.

Nope, instead only the PF demons are considered real demons. Again, what a load of shit.

There are a handful of new demons presented here. Less, though, than in the 64-page Creatures of Chaos book. A good 30 pages are wasted re-printing the demon stats that have already been in several other Rifts and Palladium books. Except for the demon lords. Apparently, re-printing their stats would have been too much. And some of them have only been statted in the PF Dragons and Gods book, so you'd have to own that and do a half-assed conversion yourself.

Yeah, it makes way more sense to reprint the gargoyle stats for the tenth fucking time than to put in the stats for the demon lords. :rolleyes:

It's not that it's a terrible book, just that its a pile of wasted potential. Instead of something really new and interesting, we get the same old shit refried again.

Thanks for the warning.  I was giving some consideration to buying Hades.  But it sounds a lot less metal than I was expecting.

Damn!!  Sounds like it should have had the PF label on it instead of the Rifts label.  Sad to see Kevin putting out that kind of product.  Thanks for letting us know, makes me wonder what the reaction is over on the Palladium boards.

Quote from: cnath.rmDamn!!  Sounds like it should have had the PF label on it instead of the Rifts label.  Sad to see Kevin putting out that kind of product.  Thanks for letting us know, makes me wonder what the reaction is over on the Palladium boards.

Probably momentarily negative, but that's why they have board admins - locking negative feedback is job #1!  :rolleyes:

Keep in mind the above rant is just my POV.  I think people should look over the book and decide for themselves whether they feel it is worth it or not (I would, however, reccomend against buying it sight unseen as I did).

The super-cool metal-type cover led me to expect one thing.  What I saw delivered was another.  Opinions will vary.

There were some good parts to the book.  I just felt that overall, it did not deliver very well.

I think, overall, the majority of people on the PMB are happy with the book.  Then again, a lot of those guys were happy with the shot glasses and stamps, and every other thing Palladium puts out.  I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on this board where Zachary said he was slightly disappointed in the book as well, so the more discerning fans may be more inclined to share some of my opinions, but who knows.

I remember seeing somewhere on the Palladium forums quite a little while ago where there was discussion about it being more of a Palladium Fantasy book in Rifts clothing. That kinda turned me off on it, but I don't think they are very up front with that info. If I hadn't seen the post on the forums, I too would have assumed it would be something different than it appears to be.

On a general note, it'd be nice if KS developed a, well, new RPG instead of publishing yet another RIFTS book or reviving a license. I do understand--a new game may tank, and Palladium can't afford that to happen these days. But he's a creative guy, and when did he last create something truly new?

Well, I utilize both PFRPG and Rifts, so some of the items you've mentioned weren't really thing I was looking at.  I was disappointed in some of the layout decisions, but overall, pretty happy with Carl Gleba's writing.  Hades has always been a mirror world of Palladium, so I guess I knew what I was expecting.  I believe I had called it "mixed bag"--some great idea bits sprinkled through the book, but some places I thought there should be improvements on.  I'm happy enough with it, but I see where you're coming from on several of your points.  

From what I've heard, Dyval or a later title might be more what you're looking for--remember, it's a battle going across the entire Megaverse, so each setting is going to get some face time at some point.  I can do some scouting, if you'd like.


The cover is still metal, though.

Quote from: Christmas ApeProbably momentarily negative, but that's why they have board admins - locking negative feedback is job #1!  :rolleyes:

Unfortunatly that is true. If your not with NMI or the like think cult you'll be shut down. One of the things that has shyed me away from pallys boards.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityOn a general note, it'd be nice if KS developed a, well, new RPG instead of publishing yet another RIFTS book or reviving a license. I do understand--a new game may tank, and Palladium can't afford that to happen these days. But he's a creative guy, and when did he last create something truly new?

I think somebody said something somewhere on the PMB about a recent podcast or intereview or something about a new zombie-themed game coming out for Palladium.  Now, that's like 10th-hand information so take that with a truckload of salt.  Maybe somebody who keeps a closer tab on things in Palladiumville can inform us more?

I agree with you, though.  Something really new would be more interesting.  We keep hearing promises about completely new stuff over the years (Mechanoid Space, Void Runners, Recon Modern, etc) but never seem to actually get it.  The latest new game was supposed to be Warpath: Urban Jungle which sounded really cool.  Unfortunately, that's already about two years late now and I don't hold out much hope for seeing it in 2008 (if ever).

Quote from: jgantsI think somebody said something somewhere on the PMB about a recent podcast or intereview or something about a new zombie-themed game coming out for Palladium.  Now, that's like 10th-hand information so take that with a truckload of salt.  Maybe somebody who keeps a closer tab on things in Palladiumville can inform us more?

I agree with you, though.  Something really new would be more interesting.  We keep hearing promises about completely new stuff over the years (Mechanoid Space, Void Runners, Recon Modern, etc) but never seem to actually get it.  The latest new game was supposed to be Warpath: Urban Jungle which sounded really cool.  Unfortunately, that's already about two years late now and I don't hold out much hope for seeing it in 2008 (if ever).

I believe there is suppossed to be a sneak peak at the new Zombie game in (IIRC) the next rifter.

Quote from: jgantsI think somebody said something somewhere on the PMB about a recent podcast or intereview or something about a new zombie-themed game coming out for Palladium.  Now, that's like 10th-hand information so take that with a truckload of salt.  Maybe somebody who keeps a closer tab on things in Palladiumville can inform us more?

I agree with you, though.  Something really new would be more interesting.  We keep hearing promises about completely new stuff over the years (Mechanoid Space, Void Runners, Recon Modern, etc) but never seem to actually get it.  The latest new game was supposed to be Warpath: Urban Jungle which sounded really cool.  Unfortunately, that's already about two years late now and I don't hold out much hope for seeing it in 2008 (if ever).

A licensed property, but I think folks will be really interested with the presentation and content of the new Robotech books, if what I'm hearing is correct.  FWIW, I've been lobbying pretty hard in certain directions.

As for the Zombie game, yeah, that's one of a couple in the embryonic stage right now.  Information past that is sketchy-we'll know more in a Rifter or so.

OK, cool.  It's good to know I didn't hallucinate the whole zombie game thing.

I'm curious to see what comes up for that.  I think it will be a pretty uphill battle for Palladium to overcome the excellent work in the genre put out by Eden with AFMBE.  But Palladium may have a competitive advantage in that they can probably put out a better Resident Evil-ish level of zombie game (whereas AFMBE is more of a Dawn of the Dead-ish level of zombie game).

Now if they could just get Warpath out...

Quote from: jgantsOK, cool.  It's good to know I didn't hallucinate the whole zombie game thing.

I'm curious to see what comes up for that.  I think it will be a pretty uphill battle for Palladium to overcome the excellent work in the genre put out by Eden with AFMBE.  But Palladium may have a competitive advantage in that they can probably put out a better Resident Evil-ish level of zombie game (whereas AFMBE is more of a Dawn of the Dead-ish level of zombie game).

Now if they could just get Warpath out...

Screw Warpath, where's my freaking Mechanoid Space?

I know, I know.