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Many fantasy RPGs basically build in the assumption that a certain amount of time between arcane levels is spent researching new spells. So, when the next level comes around, BOOM, they now have a few new spells.

Yet some RPGs make it more of a task or challenge to find spells, not tying it to a specific level or auto advancement, but through rites, quests, or other pursuits the character must go through.

I'm bringing this up because the Magic Cauldron—a spell device in Palladium Fantasy 1e that allows characters to potentially learn new spell knowledge, though not without risk—was mentioned in the "Let's read Palladium Fantasy 1e (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=24681)" thread. That got me thinking, what are some other games that handle spell knowledge differently from the add-as-you-level approach? Which systems or sub-systems for acquiring spell knowledge do you like, and which do you not like? If a game only handles describing spell acquisition largely through flavor text, which treatments do you particularly enjoy?

The Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG suggests the concept of mages going out and finding spell knowledge.

And the EPIC RPG had a similar intimation in that new "variants" had to be discovered either through finding a teacher or some other magical research. This then had to be purchased with experience points.

Ars Magica has to be the daddy on this. There are very complete rules for learning from tomes (which have to be begged, borrowed or stolen) and experimentation (with the potential for serious side effects). Or you could do a deal with the devil, or a fae...

It's a major aspect of the game.

Not quite spells, but a major source of magical power in Anima: Beyond Fantasy is Invocations, which is a sort of a cross between spells and summons. The core system covers a Major Arcana tarot deck of entities (both in their regular and reverse forms, which are mutually exclusive) upon which you can call for aid, once you fulfill the pact requirements with a given entity.

Pact requirements are different for every invocation and go from relatively simple (reach a given level; master a skill; become a leader of a group of people) to challenging (be pardoned for all past sins; judge over a difficult situation; prevent a Reversed invocation taking place; kill the person who currently has the pact) to absolutely sadistic (lose 1 life point every 3 seconds for 24 hours - no other healing works except killing sentient beings which recovers life points; fail at absolutely everything in life including making the actual invocation roll).

Later books added other invokable entities including the Four Chinese Gods, powerful elementals and the like. Some of them have multiple invocation effects for the same pact.

Runequest assumes you must seek out teachers, time, and/or new Grimoires to add more spells to your repertoire. It also includes cultural organizational limits based on the character's rank within their cult/organization on which spells and how many they are even allowed to learn. All this is, of course, optional if the players and GM want to just add new spells each time the characters gets improvement rolls.

Quote from: Zachary The First;601440Many fantasy RPGs basically build in the assumption that a certain amount of time between arcane levels is spent researching new spells. So, when the next level comes around, BOOM, they now have a few new spells.

Yet some RPGs make it more of a task or challenge to find spells, not tying it to a specific level or auto advancement, but through rites, quests, or other pursuits the character must go through.

I'm bringing this up because the Magic Cauldron—a spell device in Palladium Fantasy 1e that allows characters to potentially learn new spell knowledge, though not without risk—was mentioned in the "Let's read Palladium Fantasy 1e (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=24681)" thread. That got me thinking, what are some other games that handle spell knowledge differently from the add-as-you-level approach? Which systems or sub-systems for acquiring spell knowledge do you like, and which do you not like? If a game only handles describing spell acquisition largely through flavor text, which treatments do you particularly enjoy?

All of my games require players to find or purchase all their spells after level one (http://celtricia.pbworks.com/w/page/14955581/General%20Costing%20of%20Spells).   And more powerful spells/unusual spells are not to be found in many  
towns and cities.  
Really a nice dynamic for keeping the casters tied to the establishments and guilds that have such knowledge.

Quote from: dbm;601461Ars Magica has to be the daddy on this. There are very complete rules for learning from tomes (which have to be begged, borrowed or stolen) and experimentation (with the potential for serious side effects). Or you could do a deal with the devil, or a fae...

It's a major aspect of the game.

Oh yes, Ars Magica! In Ars Magica magic tomes are more valuable than gold, and they can get a wizard to leave the covenant and go to adventures, quite an accomplishment if we take into account that unlike other RPGs, in Ars Magica wizards get more powerful studying, which precludes adventures.

Very easy to do with any TSR-era edition of D&D, and one of the myriad things I've considered doing in my next campaign.

Also, Mage: The Awakening.

Within the realm of D&D, there's Crimson Pandect, a magic-oriented book for Kevin Crawford's Red Tide setting (but easily droppable into any other old-school D&D ruleset). Besides having loads of new spells and other things for the DM, it also has a new subsystem for spell research and other magical activities. Essentially, you gather research points by establishing and expanding your library (and of course, eventually you WILL need a wizard's tower or somesuch to hold that library) and by gaining insight through, e.g., finding ancient artifacts and the like. Then you spend those points (and the money you sink into your laboratory on researching spells, creating magic items, breeding new monsters and the like.

Quote from: vytzka;601479Invocations, which is a sort of a cross between spells and summons.

so...spells?

Quote from: Claudius;601503Oh yes, Ars Magica! In Ars Magica magic tomes are more valuable than gold, and they can get a wizard to leave the covenant and go to adventures, quite an accomplishment if we take into account that unlike other RPGs, in Ars Magica wizards get more powerful studying, which precludes adventures.

I have always wanted to try this system (Ars Magica) out  but it seems to require a rather dedicated and constant group of players to make this balancing between characters work.

Quote from: TristramEvans;601588so...spells?

Well it literally* causes a dude** appear and say ooga booga before your effect manifests. They can also give you the finger and bail if your pact is not signed yet/broken.

(*for some values of literally)

(** for some values of dude)

I've always enforced the finding of new spells (i.e. spell lists) in Rolemaster. You can't just learn a new list out of thin air, can you? You need to find the right text first. Seems to me to be implicit in the rules, but I know not many people play it out that way.

Forcing Spell Casters to track down new spells once game begins is the best way to balance spell casters. Not only can you control their power level but also control what spells can be learned and make sure it will be ones that arent going to break your game.

During Character creation, the spells that a Magic-User knows are the ones he learned as an apprentice. After that, spells must be earned or found. As the character levels, his amount of known spells will increase, but no automatic learning of new spells.

And this really goes a long way to fixing the "Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard" problem so many people complain about.

IMHO anyway.

Quote from: Votan;601593I have always wanted to try this system (Ars Magica) out  but it seems to require a rather dedicated and constant group of players to make this balancing between characters work.

Not especially, in my experience. The most important thing is the fun of playing different characters. A grog can be more fun than a Mage many times.

The system is fantastically balanced, with the most powerful characters (mages) advancing faster if they don't go on the adventure. So even if a player only played some sessions then they play their most powerful option they will advance the slowest.

The other thing to keep in mind is that mages are highly political and rarely get on with each other, so intragroup conflict is high on the agenda. Having mature players who can handle their characters being at odds is an important factor.

There is a split product from the Midgard RPG.
The Midgard designer took the game in an ever more complex direction, while some of the players of the original campaign simplified the game more and more, eventually publishing their take under the name Abenteuer in Magira.
(That was around the time when Midgard had to drop Armageddon's "Magira" as its official setting.)

In Abenteuer in Magira the magic rules had the usual selection of standard spells, but every player of a mage was required to come up with 10 individual spells, one per level, that were his signature spells. I always liked that feature.
(I seem to remember that the player had to create those spells at character creation, even though his character was not able to cast all of them.)

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;601676Forcing Spell Casters to track down new spells once game begins is the best way to balance spell casters. Not only can you control their power level but also control what spells can be learned and make sure it will be ones that arent going to break your game.

During Character creation, the spells that a Magic-User knows are the ones he learned as an apprentice. After that, spells must be earned or found. As the character levels, his amount of known spells will increase, but no automatic learning of new spells.

And this really goes a long way to fixing the "Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard" problem so many people complain about.

IMHO anyway.

It does create another problem though: the potential for the entire campaign to now revolve around the Wizard.  It becomes a campaign of everyone having to accompany the wizard on his quest for more spells.

RPGPundit

I like to vary the approach.

Part of me says, "this guy's a wizard and they are magic and stuff" - so I let a few spells sorta "gel" in their mind.  When they reach a new spell level or character level (as applicable) they pick a few spells from that level.  This is what they have learned on their own, through research and experimentation that I feel MUST be inclusive in wizarding.

Similar to the assumption a warrior is probably practicing hitting things with other things all the time in order to get that better THAC0 rating.

This isn't research on particular spells, which I also encourage.  Oh, you want that Magic Circle Against Evil, yeah?  Money x Time = Research Cost.

However, other than a few as a character gets more powerful, it's always a good thing to allow spells into the campaign that a character has not run across.  That moment where they must decide to use a scroll or to learn it.  

Spells are treasure too.

The baseline assumption in AD&D is that you have to track down new spells to put in your spellbook.

People dismiss the AD&D magic-user (or OD&D, too, I guess) as being a clip-loaded blaster pistol that has to be reloaded semi-regularly and that's it; this is untrue.  

Magic-users in AD&D do get spell-study in which they try to learn a spell from a previous level that they didn't know, with the same "percentage chance to know" applying.  Wanna teach yourself Wall of Fire?  Got a 55% chance to know it?  Aw, you rolled an 81.  See you next time 'round!

When they do find a scroll or spellbook, copying its contents into their own spellbook via write is fraught with peril: the write spell is cast, and then a save v. magic is rolled.  A success means the spell is copied.  A failure means the caster takes 1d4xlevel of spell copied damage (and the spell isn't copied).  That damage can only be healed naturally by x days of rest where x = damage taken.

Then of course there's the matter of casting directly from a scroll - a lowly 1st level magic-user can attempt to cast, say, wish from a scroll, but the difference in levels between the scroll's spell and what the caster can cast indicates a chance of failure (in which case the scroll is ruined) or even the opposite effect happening!

I'd much rather see a world where casters and non-casters are relatively equal, and so letting casters gain new spells with progression is as much a non-issue as the fighters learning new combat techniques over time.

At the same time, I do like the idea of making magic more random and/or difficult to find, if only because otherwise it loses some of its... magic-ness. d20 and 4e both seemed to lack something in that regard, with magic feeling relatively mundane.

I think I'd prefer the randomness come in for the usage of the spells, though, and not their acquisition. However, I'd definitely keep the "you need to go find this" for spells of epic proportions or power. Like a spell equivalent of Excalibur, or what-not: something you have to hunt for, that no one can research on their own anymore. Why should the fighters get all the fun with finding pieces of powerful ancient history?

Quote from: RPGPundit;601867It does create another problem though: the potential for the entire campaign to now revolve around the Wizard.  It becomes a campaign of everyone having to accompany the wizard on his quest for more spells.

RPGPundit

Only if the GM and especially the other players allow it...

I think you will find fewer wizards played if those that are normally drawn to the class know they wont get to choose their spells ahead of time... There isnt much of a "power trip" if you are stuck with Magic Missile, Feather Fall and Comprehend Languages for 4 levels...

Quote from: RPGPundit;601867It does create another problem though: the potential for the entire campaign to now revolve around the Wizard.  It becomes a campaign of everyone having to accompany the wizard on his quest for more spells.

RPGPundit

Again, this was an easy fix.  One of the reasons we went skill based is that learning more advanced skills is very anaologous to learning/finding new spells (especially learning a skill with a faster experience modfier...leanring a skill from a mediocre source ensures slow, slow growth).  Many advanced skills in GS require a certain amount of texts and research or the right teacher to learn.

So everyoneis always expeneding major resources (wealth, time, and life and limb) for everyone else's research and growth.  Evens that out.

Quote from: RPGPundit;601867It does create another problem though: the potential for the entire campaign to now revolve around the Wizard.  It becomes a campaign of everyone having to accompany the wizard on his quest for more spells.

It works for old school D&D, though, since the game is explicitly structured around finding and claiming treasure (at least up to Name level). The same hoard can hold a scroll of fly for the mage, a +2 sword for the fighter and of course, wealth (and the attending XP) for everyone.

Quote from: The Butcher;601542Very easy to do with any TSR-era edition of D&D, and one of the myriad things I've considered doing in my next campaign.

Also, Mage: The Awakening.

Hrrmmm? Yes... in my 0D&D/BXD&D games the players start with spells and a spell book. Any new spell the wizard/sorcerer/shaman/witch gets has to be acquired and learned (from another spellcaster), or researched & created.

That was one of my first house rules ever. Yes Wizards are more powerful than fighters at higher levels, but often they can't tap that power unless they go out questing for new spells / material components.

...And no, they don't get to look in the PHB to see what kind of spell they can make. They have to decide using their imagination.

Quote from: GameDaddy;602037Hrrmmm? Yes... in my 0D&D/BXD&D games the players start with spells and a spell book. Any new spell the wizard/sorcerer/shaman/witch gets has to be acquired and learned (from another spellcaster), or researched & created.

That was one of my first house rules ever. Yes Wizards are more powerful than fighters at higher levels, but often they can't tap that power unless they go out questing for new spells / material components.

...And no, they don't get to look in the PHB to see what kind of spell they can make. They have to decide using their imagination.

funny; as I went a long, long way away from D&D to get there, but giving the casters a harder path due to needing to acquire more resources to actually get the spells they want to use was a goal.

Quote from: The Butcher;601987It works for old school D&D, though, since the game is explicitly structured around finding and claiming treasure (at least up to Name level). The same hoard can hold a scroll of fly for the mage, a +2 sword for the fighter and of course, wealth (and the attending XP) for everyone.

But that's not what we're talking about here; what we're talking about is when the player of the wizard says "ok, now I want the Haste spell so we all have to go to this place for no other reason than so that I can get the haste spell, and it reduces you guys to my Followers, but you have to come along anyways because you all recognize that making me more powerful will make everyone in the group much more efficient.. you fighters want to be hasted, don't you? Even if it just compounds the problem!"

RPGPundit

What about adventures focused on the fighter looking for a unique weapon? Or on a ranger seeking a specific, very rare animal?

The idea that the party is reduced to one member's followers when a given adventure is based on something that one member wants to do seems only relevant if the only things that can be sought out are for that one member. If the fighter wants to find Excalibur, and the mage wants to hunt down the haste spell, why not? It certainly seems more character-driven - and thus, IMO, more interesting - than a lot of canned modules out there. So long as the opportunity exists for everyone to have things they want to go hunt down, then it's not biased for or against any one class.

Technically you're right, there is an analog for this in TSR D&D. The fighter could seek additional Weapon Proficiency/Specialization/Mastery/Style by seeking a tutor or personal research as well. Similarly the rogue and fighter sought better gear and materials, just like spells and components. And (this is a bit of a stretch depending on your table) the bard also sought better entertainments, technique, and lore. All of which often lead to more adventure!

I think that sounds like a table problem where the play group assumes their characters must be glued to the hip and time keeping is not kept as strictly. But that's just me.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;602228What about adventures focused on the fighter looking for a unique weapon? Or on a ranger seeking a specific, very rare animal?

The idea that the party is reduced to one member's followers when a given adventure is based on something that one member wants to do seems only relevant if the only things that can be sought out are for that one member. If the fighter wants to find Excalibur, and the mage wants to hunt down the haste spell, why not? It certainly seems more character-driven - and thus, IMO, more interesting - than a lot of canned modules out there. So long as the opportunity exists for everyone to have things they want to go hunt down, then it's not biased for or against any one class.

Thing is, it could happen that a fighter will want to find some specific weapon, or the ranger some rare animal, but these things aren't as absolutely tied to his efficiency as the mage's spells are to the mage!
And likewise, if it happens, it is likely to happen what, once? Twice in a campaign?

Whereas with a wizard, think of how many spells he has to find...

RPGPundit

*gasp* Are you suggesting that the fighter has a significant advantage over the wizard by not needing to find new power through adventuring?

(I know, I know, it's flirting with an already beaten and dead topic. But it was a most entertaining sarcasm opportunity, you must admit.)
:D

Quote from: RPGPundit;602397Thing is, it could happen that a fighter will want to find some specific weapon, or the ranger some rare animal, but these things aren't as absolutely tied to his efficiency as the mage's spells are to the mage!
And likewise, if it happens, it is likely to happen what, once? Twice in a campaign?

Whereas with a wizard, think of how many spells he has to find...

RPGPundit

No.
That was the point I was makig above.  You can easily set up advanced skills and feats, as well as items and spells, require a ton of money and research or adventure or both to obtain.

Quote from: RPGPundit;602207But that's not what we're talking about here; what we're talking about is when the player of the wizard says "ok, now I want the Haste spell so we all have to go to this place for no other reason than so that I can get the haste spell, and it reduces you guys to my Followers, but you have to come along anyways because you all recognize that making me more powerful will make everyone in the group much more efficient.. you fighters want to be hasted, don't you? Even if it just compounds the problem!"

RPGPundit

It's an adventure driver.  It's the same thing if the fighter wants to get some mithril or whatever from the dwarf mine for a new magic sword.  As long as their's a balance between game goals and everyone getting their time, it's all cool.

I like Glorantha - you have an adventures to learn new spells, by questing into the Heroplane and reenacting a myth. If you engage in a new or undiscovered myth, you get new spells. You can also head to shrines for a particular hero cult and get unique magics by enacting quests.

One of the things I've always disliked about D&D clerics and druids is that no matter what god is worshipped, everyone gets the same base spell lists, especially in earlier editions. I like the idea of clerical domain/spheres and the 2E speciality priests.

Quote from: RPGPundit;602207But that's not what we're talking about here; what we're talking about is when the player of the wizard says "ok, now I want the Haste spell so we all have to go to this place for no other reason than so that I can get the haste spell, and it reduces you guys to my Followers, but you have to come along anyways because you all recognize that making me more powerful will make everyone in the group much more efficient.. you fighters want to be hasted, don't you? Even if it just compounds the problem!"

But that's not how it works. The lore-hungry wizard doesn't get to choose which spells the ancients buried in their ruins, or which scrolls the dragon holds in his hoard. It's not so much this...

QuotePlayer: "I want to learn haste"

...which I consider boorish, vaguely entitled, and unimmersive; but rather more along the lines of:

QuoteGM (by way of NPC sage or the old man's treasure map or whatever): "The sorcerer-kings of old Lemuria knew many eldritch secrets, lost to us since the great purge of the Atlantean Arcanomachy; and it is said that the catacombs beneath Old Tartessos house the remains of Hyrcanus IX 'the Uncrowned', last of the ancient Lemurian royal blood. Who knows what strange incantations of the distant past lie entombed with the long-dead scion of that dynasty of mighty warlocks, who ruled half the Known World, from the Sea of Dusk to the Hungry Steppes, before the Atlanteans could even figure out how to smelt bronze?"

Quote from: The Butcher;602475But that's not how it works. The lore-hungry wizard doesn't get to choose which spells the ancients buried in their ruins, or which scrolls the dragon holds in his hoard. It's not so much this...



...which I consider boorish, vaguely entitled, and unimmersive; but rather more along the lines of:

A problem with well known games and systems.  I love creating found, ancient, arcane versions of spells that are not like on the wiki (or a company rulebook, back in the day).
It is also one of the reasons I have skills that vary on how good they are are based on who teaches the skill.

Quote from: Opaopajr;602445*gasp* Are you suggesting that the fighter has a significant advantage over the wizard by not needing to find new power through adventuring?

(I know, I know, it's flirting with an already beaten and dead topic. But it was a most entertaining sarcasm opportunity, you must admit.)
:D

This is rather edition dependent, but Fighters can be very, very gear dependent at higher levels.  When the Wizard can craft wonderous items at will, it can actually be the Fighter who has to go out and seek the magic items they need to be competitive.  

And if you don't think Fighters need specific magic items, just take the magic items off an NPC in the Paizo NPC Codex and you'll see a shocking degradation in capabilities.

Quote from: Votan;601593I have always wanted to try this system (Ars Magica) out  but it seems to require a rather dedicated and constant group of players to make this balancing between characters work.

Balance Ars Magica?

The wizard runs the show, the companions are there essentially as henchmen. The grogs are your basic mooks, only run by the players. AM is about as balanced as a Yugo after an off-center crash.

In Mythus casters (and that potentially includes every Player Character) usually finds himself with a book of castings after learning the skill. And seeing as there are a number of casting using skills, that translates into a lot of books.

These aint small books, so most of the time the PC leaves them at home where, one hopes, they are kept safe. (A library where you pay a fee for them to store your books for you, now there's an idea.)

As a Mage or Priest a character can create his own castings, though the rules are a bit much to get through. Other characters are stuck with what's already been invented.

A caster may also find castings in various locations; old books, wall inscriptions, a pamphlet, a scroll, in a tattoo. He does not automatically gain new ones whenever his skill rises to allow him use of higher grade magicks.

Unhallowed (an unreleased companion game to Mythus) does not have standard spells. Instead all magics must be spontaneous. Created, that is, on the spot. The character's level of skill in dweomercraefting tells you which of the seven laws of magick he can use, and the rules give guidelines telling you what effects he can affect based on that law.

Quote from: LordVreeg;602493A problem with well known games and systems.

Absolutely, and it's my job as a GM to put these spells back where they belong: into the bowels of the Earth, interred beneath layer upon layer of rubble of fallen empires and their ruined palaces and shattered statues, buried by the sands of time and turned into the abode of unclean things.

That's D&D, bitches.

Quote from: The Butcher;602786Absolutely, and it's my job as a GM to put these spells back where they belong: into the bowels of the Earth, interred beneath layer upon layer of rubble of fallen empires and their ruined palaces and shattered statues, buried by the sands of time and turned into the abode of unclean things.

That's D&D, bitches.

I appreciate the sentiment.
Nothing scares and intrigues players more than the regular appearance of the non-standard.
'cept maybe gnomes in chaps.

Quote from: The Butcher;602786Absolutely, and it's my job as a GM to put these spells back where they belong: into the bowels of the Earth, interred beneath layer upon layer of rubble of fallen empires and their ruined palaces and shattered statues, buried by the sands of time and turned into the abode of unclean things.

That's D&D, bitches.

Or a government warehouse.

Quote from: The Butcher;602475But that's not how it works. The lore-hungry wizard doesn't get to choose which spells the ancients buried in their ruins, or which scrolls the dragon holds in his hoard. It's not so much this...



...which I consider boorish, vaguely entitled, and unimmersive; but rather more along the lines of:

I have no problem with the idea of the PCs trying to go to dangerous places that might or might not have spells, along with other treasures.  That's pretty much standard D&D play.

What I thought we were talking about here though is the idea that learning any new spell requires going to do a specific thing (ie the 'where can spell knowledge be found' table someone posted on another thread earlier), and that it then works with the player asking the Gm "what does my wizard have to do to learn haste", the gm says "go to x" and then everyone gets dragged around by the wizard to go get the spells he wants.

Because that is the danger here: its a short step to where the player starts to say 'well, my wizard would research just how to get spell X and then everyone will have to go do that for me, because I'm the wizard'!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;602804...its a short step to where the player starts to say 'well, my wizard would research just how to get spell X and then everyone will have to go do that for me, because I'm the wizard'!

RPGPundit

Back in the day we called that "metagaming". In my case I would tell the player, "Okay, you've figured out how to get spell X. Now it's time for you to go and get spell X."

Quote from: Votan;601593I have always wanted to try this system (Ars Magica) out  but it seems to require a rather dedicated and constant group of players to make this balancing between characters work.

Yeah. I love the premise of Ars Magic, but the system is way too complex for anything but a dedicated group of hardcore gamers where everyone takes the books home to study.

Quote from: RPGPundit;601867It does create another problem though: the potential for the entire campaign to now revolve around the Wizard.  It becomes a campaign of everyone having to accompany the wizard on his quest for more spells.

I've seen this happen in my games. The rest of the players go along for awhile, but eventually they balk at yet another mission to explore some mad wizard's tower.

Quote from: Haffrung;602818I've seen this happen in my games. The rest of the players go along for awhile, but eventually they balk at yet another mission to explore some mad wizard's tower.

Try a diversion. The wizard wants to go find another spell, along the way to find that spell the party gets diverted by something else. Just think of this sort of thing happening in real life.

Personally, I prefer how LotFP does it.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Haffrung;602818I've seen this happen in my games. The rest of the players go along for awhile, but eventually they balk at yet another mission to explore some mad wizard's tower.

Don't have the rewards be exclusive.  The Mad Wizard's Tower might be full of all sorts of treasure and interesting magic loot.  Maybe an enemy of the Figher PC is hiding out there.  This is a spotlight issue any competent GM can deal with.

A variety of approaches can help. The guild or school that the PC is part of can demand quests in order to be taught higher secrets - the school or master wizard can become a PC patron who can offer a range of rewards for going on the adventure to everyone - cash, magic items, services, spell knowledge.

In LotFP you don't go out on solo quests for spells, or drag other pcs out to get them with you.  Instead, you can research spells in the comfort of your own home.

Of course, to do that you need to have a library, which costs a tremendous amount of money. To have that library, you must also have a place to put that library, which means getting a house, and eventually a bigger one when the space runs out.  Which means you have to pay taxes, which means you have to hire an accountant.
And actually researching the spells takes a great deal of time and a great deal of money; you can spend less time and money, but then there's a bigger chance that all your studies will fail.

It means that instead of inconveniencing the rest of the party, the wizard has to inconvenience himself to get that Haste spell he wants so badly; and to maintain himself and his huge library he'll need to go out on adventures.

RPGPundit

Earthdawn has grimoires that magic using PCs are always looking for (and any character can be trained to use if I'm remembering right)... they're not necessarily books though, and not always portable (our group found one carved into the walls of an alchemist's forge).

Call of Cthulhu has a ton of creepy spells locked away in worm-eaten books that are there for the brave/foolhardy/insane to discover/covet/obsess over. My old campaign was pretty much all about the PCs' group scheming to get forbidden knowledge from some other group... keeping it safe... tracking it down when it was stolen.

Jorune has schools/tutors who will teach Dyshas (spells, kinda) but there are others that can only be found by venturing into dangerous places.

Spell research requiring or helped by a library/keep (which requires its own maintenance) is at least as old as 2e. Also had ways for fighters to run similar smithy/forts to forge new weapons/items (or wizards on retainer for enchants, or weapon masters wandering for weap specs, etc.).

I understand the concern, but it's sort of a GM thing that perhaps might need a comment in DMG, but dunno if it's so pressing to have explicit rules/recommendations.

Quote from: Opaopajr;603964Spell research requiring or helped by a library/keep (which requires its own maintenance) is at least as old as 2e. Also had ways for fighters to run similar smithy/forts to forge new weapons/items (or wizards on retainer for enchants, or weapon masters wandering for weap specs, etc.).

I understand the concern, but it's sort of a GM thing that perhaps might need a comment in DMG, but dunno if it's so pressing to have explicit rules/recommendations.

Well, there's also the alternative of just not letting a wizard obtain new spells except through level advancement or adventuring.

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