Many fantasy RPGs basically build in the assumption that a certain amount of time between arcane levels is spent researching new spells. So, when the next level comes around, BOOM, they now have a few new spells.

Yet some RPGs make it more of a task or challenge to find spells, not tying it to a specific level or auto advancement, but through rites, quests, or other pursuits the character must go through.

I'm bringing this up because the Magic Cauldron—a spell device in Palladium Fantasy 1e that allows characters to potentially learn new spell knowledge, though not without risk—was mentioned in the "Let's read Palladium Fantasy 1e" thread. That got me thinking, what are some other games that handle spell knowledge differently from the add-as-you-level approach? Which systems or sub-systems for acquiring spell knowledge do you like, and which do you not like? If a game only handles describing spell acquisition largely through flavor text, which treatments do you particularly enjoy?

The Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG suggests the concept of mages going out and finding spell knowledge.

And the EPIC RPG had a similar intimation in that new "variants" had to be discovered either through finding a teacher or some other magical research. This then had to be purchased with experience points.

Ars Magica has to be the daddy on this. There are very complete rules for learning from tomes (which have to be begged, borrowed or stolen) and experimentation (with the potential for serious side effects). Or you could do a deal with the devil, or a fae...

It's a major aspect of the game.

Not quite spells, but a major source of magical power in Anima: Beyond Fantasy is Invocations, which is a sort of a cross between spells and summons. The core system covers a Major Arcana tarot deck of entities (both in their regular and reverse forms, which are mutually exclusive) upon which you can call for aid, once you fulfill the pact requirements with a given entity.

Pact requirements are different for every invocation and go from relatively simple (reach a given level; master a skill; become a leader of a group of people) to challenging (be pardoned for all past sins; judge over a difficult situation; prevent a Reversed invocation taking place; kill the person who currently has the pact) to absolutely sadistic (lose 1 life point every 3 seconds for 24 hours - no other healing works except killing sentient beings which recovers life points; fail at absolutely everything in life including making the actual invocation roll).

Later books added other invokable entities including the Four Chinese Gods, powerful elementals and the like. Some of them have multiple invocation effects for the same pact.

Runequest assumes you must seek out teachers, time, and/or new Grimoires to add more spells to your repertoire. It also includes cultural organizational limits based on the character's rank within their cult/organization on which spells and how many they are even allowed to learn. All this is, of course, optional if the players and GM want to just add new spells each time the characters gets improvement rolls.

Quote from: Zachary The First;601440Many fantasy RPGs basically build in the assumption that a certain amount of time between arcane levels is spent researching new spells. So, when the next level comes around, BOOM, they now have a few new spells.

Yet some RPGs make it more of a task or challenge to find spells, not tying it to a specific level or auto advancement, but through rites, quests, or other pursuits the character must go through.

I'm bringing this up because the Magic Cauldron—a spell device in Palladium Fantasy 1e that allows characters to potentially learn new spell knowledge, though not without risk—was mentioned in the "Let's read Palladium Fantasy 1e" thread. That got me thinking, what are some other games that handle spell knowledge differently from the add-as-you-level approach? Which systems or sub-systems for acquiring spell knowledge do you like, and which do you not like? If a game only handles describing spell acquisition largely through flavor text, which treatments do you particularly enjoy?

All of my games require players to find or purchase all their spells after level one.   And more powerful spells/unusual spells are not to be found in many  
towns and cities.  
Really a nice dynamic for keeping the casters tied to the establishments and guilds that have such knowledge.

Quote from: dbm;601461Ars Magica has to be the daddy on this. There are very complete rules for learning from tomes (which have to be begged, borrowed or stolen) and experimentation (with the potential for serious side effects). Or you could do a deal with the devil, or a fae...

It's a major aspect of the game.

Oh yes, Ars Magica! In Ars Magica magic tomes are more valuable than gold, and they can get a wizard to leave the covenant and go to adventures, quite an accomplishment if we take into account that unlike other RPGs, in Ars Magica wizards get more powerful studying, which precludes adventures.

Very easy to do with any TSR-era edition of D&D, and one of the myriad things I've considered doing in my next campaign.

Also, Mage: The Awakening.

Within the realm of D&D, there's Crimson Pandect, a magic-oriented book for Kevin Crawford's Red Tide setting (but easily droppable into any other old-school D&D ruleset). Besides having loads of new spells and other things for the DM, it also has a new subsystem for spell research and other magical activities. Essentially, you gather research points by establishing and expanding your library (and of course, eventually you WILL need a wizard's tower or somesuch to hold that library) and by gaining insight through, e.g., finding ancient artifacts and the like. Then you spend those points (and the money you sink into your laboratory on researching spells, creating magic items, breeding new monsters and the like.

Quote from: vytzka;601479Invocations, which is a sort of a cross between spells and summons.

so...spells?

Quote from: Claudius;601503Oh yes, Ars Magica! In Ars Magica magic tomes are more valuable than gold, and they can get a wizard to leave the covenant and go to adventures, quite an accomplishment if we take into account that unlike other RPGs, in Ars Magica wizards get more powerful studying, which precludes adventures.

I have always wanted to try this system (Ars Magica) out  but it seems to require a rather dedicated and constant group of players to make this balancing between characters work.

Quote from: TristramEvans;601588so...spells?

Well it literally* causes a dude** appear and say ooga booga before your effect manifests. They can also give you the finger and bail if your pact is not signed yet/broken.

(*for some values of literally)

(** for some values of dude)

I've always enforced the finding of new spells (i.e. spell lists) in Rolemaster. You can't just learn a new list out of thin air, can you? You need to find the right text first. Seems to me to be implicit in the rules, but I know not many people play it out that way.

Forcing Spell Casters to track down new spells once game begins is the best way to balance spell casters. Not only can you control their power level but also control what spells can be learned and make sure it will be ones that arent going to break your game.

During Character creation, the spells that a Magic-User knows are the ones he learned as an apprentice. After that, spells must be earned or found. As the character levels, his amount of known spells will increase, but no automatic learning of new spells.

And this really goes a long way to fixing the "Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard" problem so many people complain about.

IMHO anyway.

Quote from: Votan;601593I have always wanted to try this system (Ars Magica) out  but it seems to require a rather dedicated and constant group of players to make this balancing between characters work.

Not especially, in my experience. The most important thing is the fun of playing different characters. A grog can be more fun than a Mage many times.

The system is fantastically balanced, with the most powerful characters (mages) advancing faster if they don't go on the adventure. So even if a player only played some sessions then they play their most powerful option they will advance the slowest.

The other thing to keep in mind is that mages are highly political and rarely get on with each other, so intragroup conflict is high on the agenda. Having mature players who can handle their characters being at odds is an important factor.