This was just pointed out to me.

er... wha?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CVrP7NgSjc

QuoteJason Corley, Ara Kooser and Meguey Baker will discuss the idea of RPGs as Folk Art. Jason offered these thoughts on the subject:
"...much RPG play has significant similarities with folk art:

* fulfills a utilitarian or enjoyment-focused function instead of an aesthetic one (i.e. RPG players don't generally take acting classes, improv classes or writing classes to try to be better players and value performances not based on the quality of their work but on their enjoyment of doing it).

* primarily passed on through mentorship in small face to face communities instead of training within established artistic institutions

* characterized by a naive style, rather than following even the most basic traditional rules of performance, creation or even competitive gameplay

* intended almost exclusively for the consumption of a small audience

The folk art I particularly am thinking of having the biggest connection to RPGs is the parlor performance (and parlor game playing!) culture of the 19th century middle class, but there are many other strands that I think contribute. And I am eager to learn more!"

I get what they are getting at. But it sounds like they are painting RPGs in really broad strokes. At over a half hour...

In the past I've thought about similarities with the 'paper theaters' that were very popular for a while, back before TV and radio... also with folks who play musical instruments together at home... but never made the folk art connection.

Well I guess then we can classify Geezer/whateverhescallednow's sessions of OD&D as comedy sitcom?

Quote from: Omega;850608I get what they are getting at. But it sounds like they are painting RPGs in really broad strokes. At over a half hour...

This reads like the confused struggling of a person who neither plays RPGs nor actually does folk art.

I agree there are similarities. Other than a pedantic desire to formally pigeon hole all human activity or the need to find a topic so someone can write a thesis, or any thesis so they can graduate, I just don't get why we should care whether or not RPGs are folk art. If it makes your little heart glow to call what you are doing folk art or if it makes it easier for you to explain what you do every Saturday night to Great Aunt Maudie by calling it folk art, by all means go right ahead. Just don't expect most of us to give a rat's ass for the definition.

Personally I call it a hobby.

It seems similar to hobbies like model railroading or miniatures wargaming to me. And when the hobby started out you could often go to a store that sold all three. Sometimes called, a hobby store. If I was looking, I'd look for folk art supplies at Michael's or in a Quilter's catalog or something.

Quote from: Bren;850631This reads like the confused struggling of a person who neither plays RPGs nor actually does folk art.

I agree there are similarities. Other than a pedantic desire to formally pigeon hole all human activity or the need to find a topic so someone can write a thesis, or any thesis so they can graduate, I just don't get why we should care whether or not RPGs are folk art. If it makes your little heart glow to call what you are doing folk art or if it makes it easier for you to explain what you do every Saturday night to Great Aunt Maudie by calling it folk art, by all means go right ahead. Just don't expect most of us to give a rat's ass for the definition.

Personally I call it a hobby.

It seems similar to hobbies like model railroading or miniatures wargaming to me. And when the hobby started out you could often go to a store that sold all three. Sometimes called, a hobby store. If I was looking, I'd look for folk art supplies at Michael's or in a Quilter's catalog or something.

I am no art expert, but my instinct is RPGs are more in the hobby/game end of the spectrum. I suppose there is an arts and crafts element to a lot of what goes into it (who hasn't made a castle from a milk carton and some toothpicks). I also tend to think of game design as a craft. But Hobby captures it best I think. Maybe a hobby where you kind of dabble in things that can veer into art.

I will say this though, every once in a while a book comes along that is so striking and transformative in the hobby that I might almost describe it as being art in the sense that has this huge impact and is a kind of landmark. I also think every once in a while when you design games, you invest so much time, emotion and vision that it feels an awful lot like an artistic pursuit (judging by my own experience with art from writing music and performing). So I can see it there. I would still use the term craft myself, but that is somewhat of a pedantic distinction.

Largely I think this comes down to how people understand what they are doing. If someone sees their gaming as art, that isn't going to take any time away from my day. I just have trouble seeing it as such myself. I can understand how people might feel that way though.

I think my artist muscles get more work with wargames... building terrain and painting miniatures and whatnot. Lots of crafting supplies at work there. Not so much with RPGs.

Quote from: Simlasa;850645I think my artist muscles get more work with wargames... building terrain and painting miniatures and whatnot. Lots of crafting supplies at work there. Not so much with RPGs.

There is certainly more of that in war-games, but plenty of people build terrain, paint miniatures, etc for RPGs. There is also mapping, which can get pretty involved for those who get into it.

I'm the wrong person. I don't even think illustrations are art.



-clash

Let's start with a definition of Folk Art...

WIKIPEDIA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_art
"Folk art encompasses art produced from an indigenous culture or by peasants or other laboring tradespeople. In contrast to fine art, folk art is primarily utilitarian and decorative rather than purely aesthetic."

DICTIONARY.COM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/folk+art
"artistic works, as paintings, sculpture, basketry, and utensils, produced typically in cultural isolation by untrained often anonymous artists or by artisans of varying degrees of skill and marked by such attributes as highly decorative design, bright bold colors, flattened perspective, strong forms in simple arrangements, and immediacy of meaning."

GOOD DISCUSSION OF FOLK ART (now and then)
http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/definitions/folk-art.htm

I live in a rural area with a small college city surrounded by very small towns. I've played (And had great times) with a lot of isolated groups who have been playing D&D 2nd ed, Rifts, White Wolf 1st ed, or even SPI DragonQuest since those games first came out without ever switching to a more modern system, groups who have never heard of RPG.net, never heard of G/N/S theory, and don't give a flying fuck if their fun is fashionable or "Correct". A lot of these groups tend to have "Auteur" gamemasters who have very distinctive styles, trademark houserules, and their own obsessions that travel from game to game regardless of genre. Often this auteur is the guy who was the first person to bring role-playing to the town, like a nerd Johnny Appleseed.

So I gotta admit this actually makes quite a bit of sense to me.

Quote from: Bren;850631Other than a pedantic desire to formally pigeon hole all human activity or the need to find a topic so someone can write a thesis, or any thesis so they can graduate, I just don't get why we should care whether or not RPGs are folk art.

Right.  Effing.  Here.

Quote from: flyingmice;850676I'm the wrong person. I don't even think illustrations are art.



-clash

Orf with 'iz 'ead!:mad:

I don't see 'art' as some exalted/rarefied thing that's only done by 'artists'... so I guess I'm a lot looser on calling things 'art' if the folks doing them are exercising creativity while doing them.

Quote from: Simlasa;850817I don't see 'art' as some exalted/rarefied thing that's only done by 'artists'... so I guess I'm a lot looser on calling things 'art' if the folks doing them are exercising creativity while doing them.

Ive had a couple of game designers and artists pull the following.

"If you arent being payed then you are not a real designer/artist. You are just a hobbyist/amateur." some taking it further and claiming "If you arent being payed by a publisher. then you are not a real designer/artist. You are just a hobbyist/amateur."

Quote from: Omega;850901Ive had a couple of game designers and artists pull the following.

"If you arent being payed then you are not a real designer/artist. You are just a hobbyist/amateur." some taking it further and claiming "If you arent being payed by a publisher. then you are not a real designer/artist. You are just a hobbyist/amateur."

I've heard plenty of artists say the opposite... if it's work for hire it isn't true art. Both sound like bullshit to me... having had gallery shows, unpaid projects AND art jobs with a paycheck.