Qin made the leap from French to English. There are many other good games out there (Alatriste and Aquelarre come to mind), but they lack an English translation.

Why not more translated games? Is it that expensive to hire a decent translator? Or is the licensing costs?

Also, what about PDF translations to other languages?

I have a hunch that some foreign language games don't get translated because the game it's self does not appeal to english speaking people enough to print.

Different languages create different scenes, different tastes make for different games.

Quote from: JongWKWhy not more translated games? Is it that expensive to hire a decent translator? Or is the licensing costs?

In my experience, it's a bit of both.  On top of that, throw in "artistic differences" -- a game that appeals to players in one country may not appeal to those in another.  Chaosium's Nephilim leaps straight to mind, an immensely popular game in France that failed both to translate well to an English-language edition and to capture the attention of the English-speaking market.  Other issues aside (yes, Chaosium's internal issues), it seemed like a good idea, but it lacked mass appeal.

Should mass appeal to new markets matter?  Ultimately, yes.  The game needs to pay for itself.  It needs to pay for the licensing, it needs to pay for the translation, the editing, the art, the production costs, etc.  It also needs to avoid or overcome differences in design philosophy and cultural sensibilities (something that Nephilim definitely tripped over a few times).  It's both a significant gamble and a bit of a minefield to navigate.

That said, bring on Alatriste!  I just wish I could bonehead my way through reading Spanish just enough to justify buying a copy.  A quality translation into English would definitely draw my buying dollar.

!i!

To save a fellow poster from the chagrin of pimping his own project.

P.S. That marketing copy mentions it is the first Japanese -> English translation of an RPG.

Yeah, but if I recall correctly, Nephilim was considerably changed in the translation, the English version was VERY different than the French original.

I know that this was the case with In Nomine, which was a totally different game in English from the original.

RPGPundit

Quote from: blakkieTo save a fellow poster from the chagrin of pimping his own project.

P.S. That marketing copy mentions it is the first Japanese -> English translation of an RPG.

That's Andy K's translation project, right?

Quote from: JongWKThat's Andy K's translation project, right?

Yeah, and judging from the blog it looks like this is suppose to be a fairly close translation rather than closer to a rewritten game as were some of the others mentioned above. But with more background info for the NA/European audience that generally doesn't have quite the same level of knowledge of Japanese TV and myths.

Quote from: JongWKThat's Andy K's translation project, right?

Yeah, though frankly, I'm starting to disbelieve that it's ever going to come to fruition, and I'm also becoming increasingly concerned that it's going to come out leaning in a much more "storygames"/"Forge" direction, from the descriptions on the site.

Which will pretty much piss me the fuck off.

There's some very intriguing games available on the Japanese market, and I'd love to see them faithfully translated into English, but I'm starting to suspect that Tenra Bansho is not going to be an example of that.

Quote from: J ArcaneYeah, though frankly, I'm starting to disbelieve that it's ever going to come to fruition, and I'm also becoming increasingly concerned that it's going to come out leaning in a much more "storygames"/"Forge" direction, from the descriptions on the site.

Which will pretty much piss me the fuck off.

Some stuff on the website seemed interesting. Some other stuff... didn't.

I just talked to my girlfriend at work - she's a Japanese-English interpreter/translator, works for a Japanese engineering firm. She tells me that an agency will charge A$35, or US$25 per 100 words, to and from an Asian language to a European. From one European language to another is somewhat cheaper, "but never less than A$25." So we can call it US$0.25 a word.

"What about big projects?" I said, "Surely you get a discount if it's a whole novel instead of just a contract or something."
"Yes, but never less than twenty-five [Aussie] bucks per hundred words."

So, US$0.20 a word.

By comparison, roleplaying game companies pay from US$0.02 a word (smalfry pdf guy) to US$0.10 a word (large and "generous" company) to the writers.

Translating the thing will cost you two to ten times as much as it cost you to get it written in the first place. You'd be better off getting someone with a good grasp of the target language, and who could converse with you in the original language, talking to them about the rpg, and getting them to write their own version.

My girlfriend explained that translation is more expensive than writing, because when you write, you can write whatever you want, it flows somewhat; but when you translate, you have to use the words already there, and carry the exact meaning from one language to another without changing anything - it's harder.

Anyway, point is, if rpg companies barely manage to pay the people who write the games US$0.02 to US$0.10 a word, then they're sure as shit going to struggle to pay US$0.20 a word to get the thing translated.

Quote from: RPGPunditYeah, but if I recall correctly, Nephilim was considerably changed in the translation, the English version was VERY different than the French original.

I know that this was the case with In Nomine, which was a totally different game in English from the original.

I don't believe the translation from French to English changed Nephilim that much, in the core rules at least.  Later US-made supplements under a different editorial and creative team tried to knock it onto different tracks entirely, though.  Claims abound from French gamers that Chaosium warped it into a game of "kewl powerz" à la the World of Darkness games, which applied to neither the original translation or the later US-made supplements.  From what I understand about the core game, the mechanics and most of the text remained the same as the original (albeit in translated form), but that much of the French/European setting that was deemed essential was gutted and replaced with a very bland American/San Francisco backdrop.  The real argument that emerged from this side of the Atlantic was that it didn't differ enough from the original, which led to the aforementioned attempt to jump rails.

I've also heard the stories about In Nomine, though I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of the game.  Every now and then I wonder if people conflate Nephilim and In Nomine, as they were topically similar games, both from France, and both translated hastily into English at the same time.

I suppose this is another potential pitfall of the translation business.  Word gets out that there's a body of hot, untapped foreign-language games out there, already written, and just waiting to be marketed to a hungry English-speaking market.  Seems like easy money.  Just get some starving college student with a degree of fluency in the needed language to sit down and knock out a translation, pass the manuscript through a spell-checker once or twice, lay out the new text, and rush it to print.  You don't need to invest in significant playtesting, obviously, since it's been a successfully marketed game in the home country for the last five years or more, and that'll just eat into your profits more.  All shakey assumptions.  All of which I believe had a hand in the production of the translated editions of Nephilim and In Nomine.

!i!

Quote from: JimBobOzMy girlfriend explained that translation is more expensive than writing, because when you write, you can write whatever you want, it flows somewhat; but when you translate, you have to use the words already there, and carry the exact meaning from one language to another without changing anything - it's harder.

One of the (monumental) editing tasks I had on a still-born RPG project I was working on once was taking a literal translation of a French-to-English text and making sense of it.  Your girlfriend is dead right -- it was one of the more frustrating writing tasks I ever did.  I'd look at the raw translation and try to figure out the context and subtext, and how to say it in fluent English, with nuance.  Sometimes I'd just wing it and write passages that I felt captured the intent of the translation.  Eventually the line editor told me to simply write my own version of the book (as you suggested elsewhere in your post).

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI've also heard the stories about In Nomine, though I'm unfamiliar with the specifics of the game.  Every now and then I wonder if people conflate Nephilim and In Nomine, as they were topically similar games, both from France, and both translated hastily into English at the same time.

The In Nomine that I know (Spanish translation) is a tongue-in-cheek black humor game. I've heard the US version was very different.

Quote from: JongWKThe In Nomine that I know (Spanish translation) is a tongue-in-cheek black humor game. I've heard the US version was very different.

The most strident complaint I saw over and over revolved around the change in the original title: In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas.  People seemed to think that SJG chickened out on the "satanic" aspect of the game, which was essential to the black humor you mentioned. (Yes, yes, I know Nox.  The point has already been made.  Repeatedly.)  Again, I'm virtually unfamiliar with this game, so others can speak to the issue better than I can.

!i!