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RPGPundit Declares Victory: TheRPGsite will thus obviously remain open

Started by RPGPundit, November 02, 2010, 01:09:09 PM

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BWA

#810
November 16, 2010, 04:01:42 PM
Yes, people so sometimes express feelings of superiority.

Often, when you see this happen, it's the flip-side of that same old "nerd social anxiety" I'm talking about -- people overcompensate.

Someone with a good sense of self-worth says "My thing is awesome. Check it out!" and someone with a less robust sense of self-worth resorts (sometimes unwillingly, sometimes unwittingly) to saying "Your thing sucks!"

This stuff isn't even a Forge/OSR/trad/whatever thing. Just a nerd thing.
"In the end, my strategy worked. And the strategy was simple: Truth. Bringing the poisons out to the surface, again and again. Never once letting the fucker get away with it, never once letting one of his lies go unchallenged." -- RPGPundit

skofflox

#811
November 16, 2010, 04:28:05 PM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;417581*snip*
Well, no rhetoric required, actual Founding Father of Storygaming quote, I'm afraid.

so I have heard...sad that....is RE the father of Storygames? What about "Once upon a time" from Atlas games (must be others I am sure)?

By "rhetoric" I meant only that the statement (the original one regarding "brain damage" by RE) was blathered without much reflection as to it's truthfulness.

If there is any brain damage involved it most likely occured well before the hobby was taken up, not because of Trad. RPG's! :rolleyes:

Maybe he was just trying to be sensational (like :pundit: ?) failing miserably I might add.
cheers! :D
Form the group wisely, make sure you share goals and means.
Set norms of table etiquette early on.
Encourage attentive participation and speed of play so the game will stay vibrant!
Allow that the group, milieu and system will from an organic symbiosis.
Most importantly, have fun exploring the possibilities!

Running: AD&D 2nd. ed.
"And my orders from Gygax are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to play in my beloved milieu."-Kyle Aaron

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#812
November 16, 2010, 06:12:02 PM
Quote from: skofflox;417764so I have heard...sad that....is RE the father of Storygames? What about "Once upon a time" from Atlas games (must be others I am sure)?

By "rhetoric" I meant only that the statement (the original one regarding "brain damage" by RE) was blathered without much reflection as to it's truthfulness.

If there is any brain damage involved it most likely occured well before the hobby was taken up, not because of Trad. RPG's! :rolleyes:

Maybe he was just trying to be sensational (like :pundit: ?) failing miserably I might add.
cheers! :D

Ah, I misread you then, pardon me.
From reading the RE post, it looks like it was a "heat of passion" posting when he was feeling unappreciated. One window into his soul that would have been better bricked up.
I don't know "once upon a time." - but if not "father", biggest promoter then.

Anyway, I can see you don't agree with the ideology of the forge, even if you like their games, so cool. If weird. The ideological debate is really at its fiercest between the people who only play forge games, and those who only play trad RPGs. Welcome to the no mans land between and watch out for the landmines, I guess.

Peregrin

#813
November 16, 2010, 06:19:42 PM
*looks at his copy of Burning Wheel, which is sitting right next to Dogs in the Vineyard, which is sitting right next to Sorcerer, which is sitting right next to the core AD&D books, which are sitting right next to the 4e corebooks, which are sitting right next to the 3.5 corebooks, which are sitting right next to Diaspora and a bunch of FATE games, which are sitting right next to CoC and Masks of Nyarlathotep, some Battletech books, and a myriad of other games*

Nope.  The old shelf still hasn't caught fire yet.
"In a way, the Lands of Dream are far more brutal than the worlds of most mainstream games. All of the games set there have a bittersweetness that I find much harder to take than the ridiculous adolescent posturing of so-called \'grittily realistic\' games. So maybe one reason I like them as a setting is because they are far more like the real world: colourful, crazy, full of strange creatures and people, eternal and yet changing, deeply beautiful and sometimes profoundly bitter."

PaladinCA

#814
November 16, 2010, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: Peregrin;417801*looks at his copy of Burning Wheel, which is sitting right next to Dogs in the Vineyard, which is sitting right next to Sorcerer, which is sitting right next to the core AD&D books, which are sitting right next to the 4e corebooks, which are sitting right next to the 3.5 corebooks, which are sitting right next to Diaspora and a bunch of FATE games, which are sitting right next to CoC and Masks of Nyarlathotep, some Battletech books, and a myriad of other games*

Nope.  The old shelf still hasn't caught fire yet.

Well said. :hatsoff:

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#815
November 16, 2010, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: Peregrin;417801*looks at his copy of Burning Wheel, which is sitting right next to Dogs in the Vineyard, which is sitting right next to Sorcerer, which is sitting right next to the core AD&D books, which are sitting right next to the 4e corebooks, which are sitting right next to the 3.5 corebooks, which are sitting right next to Diaspora and a bunch of FATE games, which are sitting right next to CoC and Masks of Nyarlathotep, some Battletech books, and a myriad of other games*

Nope.  The old shelf still hasn't caught fire yet.

But but the Threefold Model!
Standard Forge Theory demands you must choose whether you are:
a) a Filthy Knuckle Dragging Gamist, worshipping dice and min/maxing, a soulless creature capable only of computing bonuses

b) a brain-damaged Simulationist, unable to have real fun.

c) a pure Narrativist, eschewing the Typhoid Mary practice of allowing a single GM to write the adventure by justly distributing narrative functions evenly across all players in the commune.

BWA

#816
November 16, 2010, 06:34:55 PM
Quote from: Peregrin;417801*looks at his copy of Burning Wheel, which is sitting right next to Dogs in the Vineyard, which is sitting right next to Sorcerer, which is sitting right next to the core AD&D books, which are sitting right next to the 4e corebooks, which are sitting right next to the 3.5 corebooks, which are sitting right next to Diaspora and a bunch of FATE games, which are sitting right next to CoC and Masks of Nyarlathotep, some Battletech books, and a myriad of other games*

My gaming shelf is similar - maybe more stuff from the "new school" (Mountain Witch, Fiasco, Mouse Guard, Dust Devils), no AD&D (sold it all), and some other "traditional" games (Savage Worlds, Jaws of the Six Serpents).

When you're actually focused on playing stuff - as most of us hopefully are - there is no point in making nit-picky distinctions.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;417805But but the Threefold Model!
Standard Forge Theory demands you must choose ...

I think you're mistaken.
"In the end, my strategy worked. And the strategy was simple: Truth. Bringing the poisons out to the surface, again and again. Never once letting the fucker get away with it, never once letting one of his lies go unchallenged." -- RPGPundit

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#817
November 16, 2010, 06:47:53 PM
Quote from: BWA;417807I think you're mistaken.

Are you denying there is a threefold model? Or that the undercurrent of sneering condescension in all Edwards' essays on the topic isn't there?

JongWK

#818
November 16, 2010, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: BWA;417807I think you're mistaken.

"I give the gift of endless imagination."
~~Gary Gygax (1938 - 2008)

crkrueger

#819
November 16, 2010, 09:34:28 PM
Just to clarify, the Threefold Model pre-dates the Forge.  GNS is Edward's mutated abortion of the model.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

BWA

#820
November 16, 2010, 11:13:05 PM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;417810Are you denying there is a threefold model? Or that the undercurrent of sneering condescension in all Edwards' essays on the topic isn't there?

Several of us just noted that we play (or at least own) lots of different games, and that made-up divisions between them are pointless and silly.

Now, if you can locate something, somewhere, that tells you that, per "Standard Forge Theory", people must choose what sort of "category" they are, and may not enjoy many different types of games, then you should go right ahead and disregard it, because clearly such a thing is nonsensical.

Mind you, I think that you are mistaken that such a thing exists, but if you're correct, then I will be the first to join you in a hearty condemnation of it.
"In the end, my strategy worked. And the strategy was simple: Truth. Bringing the poisons out to the surface, again and again. Never once letting the fucker get away with it, never once letting one of his lies go unchallenged." -- RPGPundit

Peregrin

#821
November 17, 2010, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;417805But but the Threefold Model!
Standard Forge Theory demands you must choose whether you are:
a) a Filthy Knuckle Dragging Gamist, worshipping dice and min/maxing, a soulless creature capable only of computing bonuses

b) a brain-damaged Simulationist, unable to have real fun.

c) a pure Narrativist, eschewing the Typhoid Mary practice of allowing a single GM to write the adventure by justly distributing narrative functions evenly across all players in the commune.

Hyperbole is more amusing when it actually reflects some truth regarding the subject matter.

Just sayin'.
"In a way, the Lands of Dream are far more brutal than the worlds of most mainstream games. All of the games set there have a bittersweetness that I find much harder to take than the ridiculous adolescent posturing of so-called \'grittily realistic\' games. So maybe one reason I like them as a setting is because they are far more like the real world: colourful, crazy, full of strange creatures and people, eternal and yet changing, deeply beautiful and sometimes profoundly bitter."

skofflox

#822
November 17, 2010, 01:43:43 AM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;417800Ah, I misread you then, pardon me.
From reading the RE post, it looks like it was a "heat of passion" posting when he was feeling unappreciated. One window into his soul that would have been better bricked up.
I don't know "once upon a time." - but if not "father", biggest promoter then.

Anyway, I can see you don't agree with the ideology of the forge, even if you like their games, so cool. If weird. The ideological debate is really at its fiercest between the people who only play forge games, and those who only play trad RPGs. Welcome to the no mans land between and watch out for the landmines, I guess.

:cool:

"Once upon a time" is a card based storytelling system that is very simple.All about getting rid of your hand and wrapping the story up first. I was thinking the original version from Atlas games (?) might pre-date most other Storygame titles. :idunno: (have been thinking to get this game again)

95% of my RPG collection is Trad. I do keep a few NuSkool games around to riff from...(some wargame titles lurking in there too)

I would never limit my gaming experience...variety being the spice and all! I pondered "Forge Theory" for a few years and kinda decided it was ho-hum and not really saying much.
Gamers vary...Games vary...wow...works done here. :p
Form the group wisely, make sure you share goals and means.
Set norms of table etiquette early on.
Encourage attentive participation and speed of play so the game will stay vibrant!
Allow that the group, milieu and system will from an organic symbiosis.
Most importantly, have fun exploring the possibilities!

Running: AD&D 2nd. ed.
"And my orders from Gygax are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to play in my beloved milieu."-Kyle Aaron

jeff37923

#823
November 17, 2010, 03:37:04 AM
Quote from: BWA;417721Okay, this is silly, of course, but I think I know where it comes from.

I notice this ever-present discussion repeatedly returns to ideas of perception; the perception of the imagined "other".

Someone who posts to say "I play Dogs in the Vineyard, and I love it!" will be grudgingly accepted as sharing their honest opinion, even if others maintain that they wouldn't (or don't) enjoy the same game.

But there is this powerful idea, on this forum and others, that there are all these other gamers looking down on you, or claiming superiority, or feeling "cool" or "hip" or "edgy". No one ever has any direct experience with these attitudes -- it's all inference. "Those people think they're better than us!" and that kind of thing, even though no one ever actually says anything of the sort.

I think a lot of gamers are people who experienced social anxiety related to these kinds of things growing up, and that shit leaves a mark.

Whenever I see someone getting angry because "You think you're better than me!" or claiming that they've been made to feel excluded by "the cool kids", the issue is invariably in the perception of the victim, rather than any behavior of the supposed offender.

Oh, that's just precious.

"It's not us, really! It's you, you're all just fucked up."
"Meh."

jeff37923

#824
November 17, 2010, 04:08:11 AM
Quote from: BWA;417721I think a lot of gamers are people who experienced social anxiety related to these kinds of things growing up, and that shit leaves a mark.

Whenever I see someone getting angry because "You think you're better than me!" or claiming that they've been made to feel excluded by "the cool kids", the issue is invariably in the perception of the victim, rather than any behavior of the supposed offender.

Oh, that's just precious....

So anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint isn't necessarily brain-damaged, thay are just socially retarded.

Go peddle your bullshit in a coffee shop, maybe the pseudointellectuals there will buy it.
"Meh."
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