Quote from: RPGPundit;417630Its more than that. DKChannel may be right that there are probably more than  few accounts of orc-rape in D&D.  What is also true, however, and what he's not saying which invalidates his argument, is that the vast majority of D&D gamers would probably be quick to officially condemn this mentality and the kind of element that is in that game.
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RPGPundit

Generally I agree, but the very notion of a half-orc and how they get conceived is a bit grim.

Having said that, there's no place in a roleplaying game for dwelling on that sort of thing in gruesome detail.

Now in one group I play Pathfinder with one of the players who occasionally comes along is... well... somewhere between a deviant, sexually repressed, just plain disturbed or a very wrong sense of humour. He talks about skull-fucking dead orcs. I have to say it doesn't appeal to me, and my usual response is to wince and object. But it's not as bad as the farting in that group. At least you can't smell it.

When I was running my own game Omnifray at Indiecon the year before last one of the players decided to seduce a whore at the local tavern. Perhaps I should have called fade to black, but he ended up making a roll on the infected wounds table using it as an ad hoc method of rolling for an STI. He did in fact catch knob rot. In my defence, this was done in a spirit of comedy and no specific sexual acts were described although I let him make an Agility check to see how good he was in the sack. Again, that was just for shits and giggles.

Quote from: Cranewings;417641You know, there is a game store in Cincinnati that I visit on occasion. They have a lot of small press stuff. It is odd, because they only do cards and tons of RP book, but no minis.

I'm pretty sure this is their in store inventory: pretty crazy. http://www.yottaquest.com/index.php?option=com_easytable&view=easytable&id=6%3Arpg&Itemid=44

Did you walk in there with blinders?

Yottaquest has plenty of miniatures - up front on spinner racks and the front corner of the store - or at least they did a month ago when I stopped in there. Matt and his workers have lots of miniatures.
Yottaquest is our nearest competitor by location, but also the friendlierst and nicest competitor that we have locally.

They have Flames of War there, the Vallejo line of minis - plus tons of bargain miniatures. Where I work we have much more of Reaper - because for a brief while 5 to 6 years ago we were owned by Reaper.
Yottaquest also stocks plenty of Warhammer/Games Workshop miniatures stuff.

Cranewings, next time you stop in there  - take a more careful look. Or PM me and call me on the phone ahead of time and I'll browse and shop with you.  I might not work there - but that store is definitely one of the good guys.


- Ed C.

They might have some miniatures, but if you were a Daytonite, you wouldn't think so. That's about all we do here. To be fair, they do, just not what I'd call a large amount.

Quote from: RPGPundit;416597The "hacking" that Forge Swine do of games is along the lines of "Can DiTV be done with Jedi? Can it be incorporated to the theme of adolescent coming of age?", not in the sense of actually allowing the GM to fiddle with the rules.

Again, that is untrue. People fiddle with settings or themes, and also fiddle with rules, like any other game group. They are really prone to use the rules as a frame, ready to be hacked.

QuoteNo, in fact, because 4e has clearly failed to garner the same kind of following that earlier editions had.

RPGPundit

Well, I cannot dispute that, but it may be related to the design of the game or it may jut be a sign of the times. I don't know, and neither do you. And anyway, it's still a success. It is making money, it is being played. It is a success by any definition of it but "being something the Pundit likes."

Quote from: Koltar;416732Great!
Another over-analysis post.

These are games, Role-playing games  - NOT College term or thesis papers.

- Ed C.

Dammit Ed, why do you have brain activity so much?

Don't you get that discussing games online don't preclude you from playing them. Also, why is blind ignorance better than discussion and knowing more?

Quote from: RPGPundit;417176Oh no. The "some people" I meant WAS the Forgers.  I think people play Forge games either: a) out of curiosity (until they know better) b) out of coercion (from others in their group) or c) to get the "smug pretentiousness" high.

That's it.

RPGPundit

Or d), because some of those games are fun. Amazing, I know.

When some nutjob says that CoC is a broken game, I laugh my as off and carry on running my awesome Masks of Nyarlathotep game (20 sessions and going strong!). When someone says that playing a black slave is fun, I snore out of boredom. That doesn't change that some of the games produced by those designers are lots of fun. My gropus have had great times playing Sorcerer, DitV, Lady Blackbird, Universalis (GMless!!), Burning Wheel and some other indie games. Other games look like stupid boring shit to us, and we don't care about them. That's it.

Quote from: BWA;417407Nice! You and everybody else. No one plays RPGs to be "hip" or "edgy". I mean, literally, seriously, nobody. That's a made-up thing.

Totally. It is mind-bogglingly idiotic.

Quote from: danbuter;417478The idea that rpg's are hip and edgy at all is fucking hilarious. Our hobby is for nerds, not cool people.

Word.

Quote from: Koltar;417532Geez, is everybody on here Middle-aged to fossil? I know I got gray in my beard - but I at least can spot a trend change.

Dude, you are the guy that goes around like a fucking Middle Age peasant saying that you really can think too much about stuff. My irony meter just exploded and the debris killed 5 GURPS fans.

Quote from: Imperator;417677Totally. It is mind-bogglingly idiotic.

As long as you are comfortable in your denial, that's OK.

Quote from: Imperator;417677...................
Dude, you are the guy that goes around like a fucking Middle Age peasant saying that you really can think too much about stuff. My irony meter just exploded and the debris killed 5 GURPS fans.

Bullshit.

People DO over-analyze some shit on here.

 That doesn't deny the fact that the world of what is and is not 'cool' among the 16 to 27 year old crowd has changed greatly and many of you are blind to it or refuse to notice it.
The old cliches and stereotypoes just aren't true any more.

Oh and no metaphorical GURPS fans died - you weren't standing near any.


- Ed C.

I don't hang out with younger people anymore, so that colors my perception. I know in the 80's and early 90's, rpg's were considered nerdy. I mean, what jock is going to sit down and read a 300 page rulebook for a game?

Quote from: danbuter;417706I mean, what jock is going to sit down and read a 300 page rulebook for a game?

A jock who is a closet nerd?

Quote from: danbuter;417706I don't hang out with younger people anymore, so that colors my perception. I know in the 80's and early 90's, rpg's were considered nerdy. I mean, what jock is going to sit down and read a 300 page rulebook for a game?

The one posting right now. I think I still have my letterman's jacket somewhere in the closet.

Quote from: danbuter;417706I don't hang out with younger people anymore, so that colors my perception. I know in the 80's and early 90's, rpg's were considered nerdy. I mean, what jock is going to sit down and read a 300 page rulebook for a game?

There aren't that many cliche 'jocks;' any more - thats one thing.

 These days A High School football player has got a girlfriend that dresses somewhat 'Goth" , he plays Dungeons & Dragons once a month with friends and he likely has a World of Warcraft account. He also might have an outfit that he can wear to the local Rennaissance Fair each year - cuz most of the girls he has dated like to go to Renn faires for a date.

Oh yeah at least one of his old girlfriends or his sister is bisexuial and 'out' to the whole school. She has played the BUFFY RPG and dabbled with  D&D.

- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit;417544I'm saying they don't really like RPGs as such; what they like are "storygames", and they like them not because the experience of play itself is fun, but because of the feeling they get of pretentiousness from being part of the "scene".

Okay, this is silly, of course, but I think I know where it comes from.

I notice this ever-present discussion repeatedly returns to ideas of perception; the perception of the imagined "other".

Someone who posts to say "I play Dogs in the Vineyard, and I love it!" will be grudgingly accepted as sharing their honest opinion, even if others maintain that they wouldn't (or don't) enjoy the same game.

But there is this powerful idea, on this forum and others, that there are all these other gamers looking down on you, or claiming superiority, or feeling "cool" or "hip" or "edgy". No one ever has any direct experience with these attitudes -- it's all inference. "Those people think they're better than us!" and that kind of thing, even though no one ever actually says anything of the sort.

I think a lot of gamers are people who experienced social anxiety related to these kinds of things growing up, and that shit leaves a mark.

Whenever I see someone getting angry because "You think you're better than me!" or claiming that they've been made to feel excluded by "the cool kids", the issue is invariably in the perception of the victim, rather than any behavior of the supposed offender.

Quote from: BWA;417721I think a lot of gamers are people who experienced social anxiety related to these kinds of things growing up, and that shit leaves a mark.

Whenever I see someone getting angry because "You think you're better than me!" or claiming that they've been made to feel excluded by "the cool kids", the issue is invariably in the perception of the victim, rather than any behavior of the supposed offender.

Maybe they're brain-damaged from playing old-school games?

Quote from: jeff37923;417453I can understand your position. However, I do care because I do not want this kind of crap to represent my hobby. I do not want something specifically designed to create an objectionable miserable experience to be touted as what RPGs are all about.

Yeah, I understand that.  I don't really agree, but it's a sensible enough position to take.

Quote from: Imperator;417677Again, that is untrue. People fiddle with settings or themes, and also fiddle with rules, like any other game group. They are really prone to use the rules as a frame, ready to be hacked.

Well, I cannot dispute that, but it may be related to the design of the game or it may jut be a sign of the times. I don't know, and neither do you. And anyway, it's still a success. It is making money, it is being played. It is a success by any definition of it but "being something the Pundit likes."

No, that's not actually the standard of "success" I use.  My standard is actually "did this make MORE money/get and KEEP more adherents than the last edition"?

RPGPundit

Quote from: BWA;417721Okay, this is silly, of course, but I think I know where it comes from.

I notice this ever-present discussion repeatedly returns to ideas of perception; the perception of the imagined "other".

Someone who posts to say "I play Dogs in the Vineyard, and I love it!" will be grudgingly accepted as sharing their honest opinion, even if others maintain that they wouldn't (or don't) enjoy the same game.

But there is this powerful idea, on this forum and others, that there are all these other gamers looking down on you, or claiming superiority, or feeling "cool" or "hip" or "edgy". No one ever has any direct experience with these attitudes -- it's all inference. "Those people think they're better than us!" and that kind of thing, even though no one ever actually says anything of the sort.

Sorry, dude, but when Marc Rein·Hagen says that WoD is "Role playing, not roll-playing", or the 2nd edition WoD book says that superior WW players should not stay up in their "towers" above the unwashed masses but should try to "educate" people in this superior style, they ARE in fact not just thinking, but SAYING they're better than you.
Likewise, when Ron Edwards says that the millions who play D&D are "secretly miserable", or that regular gamers are "literally brain damaged" and comparable to sexual abuse victims with permanent trauma, he's very much in fact saying that he's better than the regular gamer.

Its in fact an essential necessity of a "hipster" subculture to feel superior to the "unwashed masses", you are "special" (a true "artiste" or an "intellectual" or a "modern beat poet") because you are doing something that is different from the norm. That's the whole point.

QuoteI think a lot of gamers are people who experienced social anxiety related to these kinds of things growing up, and that shit leaves a mark.

Whenever I see someone getting angry because "You think you're better than me!" or claiming that they've been made to feel excluded by "the cool kids", the issue is invariably in the perception of the victim, rather than any behavior of the supposed offender.

Dude, I don't have a problem with feeling excluded from people doing idiotic things.  Its Edwards who once wrote about not being allowed to play with the cool kids; and Swine subculture is generally full of losers who have failed to feel "appreciated" for their basic selves.  That's why most of WW's games are about someone being a secretly powerful and special person who is superior to ordinary humanity by mere virtue of their birth (and not because of having to actually do something to deserve it), and are at the same time persecuted by a mass of philistine humanity that would never "understand" (and by "understand" they mean let them be in charge).

RPGPundit