Quote from: Seanchai;417196I think it makes us look like kooks with self-control problems.

Seanchai

You mean like the guy who obsesses over Pundit and hangs out on his forum to shout about how evil the Pundit is?

Quote from: Aos;417189Wait, you can get high off that? Quick, somebody give me a copy of Gravity's Rainbow!

Something about that book does make me feel vaguely intoxicated.

Quote from: Glazer;417169It's a long time since I last posted, having been content to lurk, but I had to chime in to say that BWA nails it in this post.

As for indie RPGs driving people out of the hobby, my own personal experience has been quite the reverse. It got me and some of my mates back into the hobby, and in a roundabout way led to me reading this forum.

Although I'd love to think the appeal was based on a desire on my part to be edgy and intellectual, as a fifty-something father of three I've sadly lost such pretensions, and instead am satisfied if I can say "that was a fun session" at the end of the night.

Congratulations, always good to hear that gamers are returning to the fold.  :cool:

Quote from: Seanchai;417196I think it makes us look like kooks with self-control problems.

Seanchai

Somewhere, some mad scientist's Irony-Meter just exploded.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;417176Oh no. The "some people" I meant WAS the Forgers.  I think people play Forge games either: a) out of curiosity (until they know better) b) out of coercion (from others in their group) or c) to get the "smug pretentiousness" high.

That's it.

RPGPundit

This is as load of crap.  I know gamers who play both forge inspired games as well as traditional games.

A couple gamers in my group wanted to try a forge inspired game.  Myself and another person werent interested so it didnt happen.  It has nothing to do with it being forge inspired game and there wanting to play it doesnt have anything to do with being coecrced or trying to be pretentious, it has to do with the game being fun and them wanting to play.  They still play both forge inspired and traditional games.

Not everyone is as close minded as you are.  Don't let your hang up of The Forge cloud your mind.   Because the gamers I know and game with don't have some hang up on The Forge (or know what The Forge Is), they either play Forge instired games because they are fun or don't because they arent.

Your hang up on The Forge doesnt equal how gamers as a whole feel towards Forge games.  On this you dont speak for gamers as a whole (at least none of the gamers I game with who are very traditional), you speak for yourself.

You dislike Forge games, we get it.   Don't play them.  They aren't effecting your gaming any more then they are effecting mine.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;417166Well, when I mean its slow and painful to do...I wasn't so much meaning in the game itself, so much as before the game itself - session preparation by mapping the dungeon or village, creating NPCs, and so on. One GM can work by themselves, whereas in a totally GM-less game, prepping a session needs everyone to be together to define stuff. That then limits sessions to being improvised.

Perhaps not everyone is looking for a totally fleshed out world...Still, I do wonder how frequently could you put together a gaming group where no one in it cares about that?

:cool: I see where you are coming from...

Most "Newschool" games do not need the same sort of setting prep that "Trad. Games" do. It is more about the feel of the situation and opportunities for dialogue between protaganists than dungeons or what have you. So the set up is not all that much.

Sometimes after the initial agreement about the Genre it's just a few "rules" about the resources avail.,some complications with basic reasons the char. are in the situation and thats it. Unleash the hounds.

It's about evoking a vibe in as few words as possible and getting to the grimey underbelly of the thing called character and if a neat "story" comes from it great if not well thats OK too (depending on the game). As long as some laughs were had and some "hmmm" moments, awesome!

It's healthy and fun to stretch the brain in new ways. All RPG's are great for this.Lets not read to much into what boils down to talking some "trash" for a few hours. The quotes in my signature sum up my POV nicely.

We would have to get down to referencing specific games as there are many in the new style so the above is a generalization for sure.

And yeah some of the games suck...same with Trad.RPG. Not all are well written or executed. I am not saying the style is better than others but that it can be just as, or more fun than, Trad.RPG depending on the participants and  mood.

I would recommend the game "Gun Thief" as a place to start. It's inexpensive,quick and a real hoot. Not for those given to hm'n & haw'n on the best tactics to use while they fumble around with their char. sheet.

so...as my fave. barbarian once quipped..."enough talk!" lets go play some games dammit!

Well, as far as Gun Thief goes...I rather doubt it'd be something I'd enjoy since I do like more structure, as in traditional RPGs. I've seen (and generally disapproved of) rules for a number of other storygame RPGs anyway, though the only time I've played one was InSpectres at a con (where we put together a crowd of what I believe were quite talented gamers and produced mush).

Anyway yeah we're cool, preferences in this area aside...if you enjoy them, I suppose have fun, as long as you're not actually rebuilding an RPG I actually like into something monstrous (e.g. WHFR-3, 4E), or looking down at regular gamers as being 'brain damaged' like some people...

Quote from: BWA;417085I guarantee that, despite what Pundit may say, there is no person on the planet who deliberately plays less-fun games purely to spite random strangers on the internet. If someone is playing games that seem lame to you, that's because they prefer that game.

Similarly, not everyone likes the exact same kind of sandwich.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think I'm just expressing my inability to empathise with the level of enjoyment people must be getting out of these games to push for them again and again. My puzzlement at what grabs their balls, if you like. I mean, I find these games OK. They're not terrible. They're considerably better than some godawful hack n slash disaster with attacks of opportunity, xp budgets for monsters and clerics who can spontaneously cast healing spells. And I'm currently playing a hack n slash game regularly to appease a local group, although to my amazement the GM is trying to push the game in new directions which are less purely focused on the 10'x10' room with the orc inside. Don't know how long it will last. It goes against all his basic instincts.

PS I am not saying that every hack n slash game of this ilk has to end up as a godawful hack n slash disaster. Plainly some can be better executed than others. I quite enjoy AD&D 1st ed even now although probably only about as much as Montsegur 1244.

Quote from: skofflox;417363...getting to the grimey underbelly of the thing called character...  

...some "hmmm" moments, awesome!...

These things here really don't interest me all that much, which is why I suppose the games that focus on these things don't interest me all that much. I like playing a character, but in the end, for me, the character is simply a vehicle for exploring the setting. Plus, I've seen enough "grimey underbelly" in real life, I have no desire to get to any kind of "grimey underbelly" in a fictional character in a game.

Quote from: Glazer;417169Although I'd love to think the appeal was based on a desire on my part to be edgy and intellectual, as a fifty-something father of three I've sadly lost such pretensions, and instead am satisfied if I can say "that was a fun session" at the end of the night.

Nice! You and everybody else. No one plays RPGs to be "hip" or "edgy". I mean, literally, seriously, nobody. That's a made-up thing.

I'm trying to set up a game this weekend. It will probably be Lady Blackbird or Fiasco. Because those games are a couple of my favorites. The idea that I'd secretly rather play GURPS, but am choosing something else out of "pretentiousness"? Word cannot express the stupidness of that.

Quote from: Omnifray;417404I think I'm just expressing my inability to empathise with the level of enjoyment people must be getting out of these games to push for them again and again.

I can understand that. I play OD&D once in a while, and, while I enjoy it well enough, I don't really get how someone could choose that over games that, to me, are more fun.

But the operative bit is "to me". If someone says "I played Mountain Witch, and it was okay, but it wasn't as much fun as Legends of the Five Rings", then I think "Huh. That dude likes different stuff than me." That's really the only truth of the matter.

Quote from: BWA;417407No one plays RPGs to be "hip" or "edgy". I mean, literally, seriously, nobody. That's a made-up thing.

Poison'd. Any number of other misery tourism games.

Quote from: BWA;417407Nice! You and everybody else. No one plays RPGs to be "hip" or "edgy". I mean, literally, seriously, nobody. That's a made-up thing.

Well I guess attending high-school in the early 00's during the start of the hardcore and new hipster movements playing White-Wolf games with "artistes" who wouldn't associate with regular "gamers" must be an anomaly.

My old GM stopped playing RPGs because it wasn't the cool new thing anymore.  He now wears ripped jean shorts, flannel shirts, and drinks PBR while touring with his garage/surf rock band.

Quote from: Peregrin;417418Well I guess attending high-school in the early 00's during the start of the hardcore and new hipster movements playing White-Wolf games with "artistes" who wouldn't associate with regular "gamers" must be an anomaly.

My old GM stopped playing RPGs because it wasn't the cool new thing anymore.  He now wears ripped jean shorts, flannel shirts, and drinks PBR while touring with his garage/surf rock band.

To be fair, that doesn't sound the worst of fates he's suffered there.  

What's PBR?

Quote from: D-503;417435To be fair, that doesn't sound the worst of fates he's suffered there.  

What's PBR?

Pabst Blue Ribbon, a cheap, sickly-sweet beer.

Quote from: Cole;417436Pabst Blue Ribbon, a cheap, sickly-sweet beer.

Favored by college psudointellectuals trying to represent themselves as part of the hip proletariat. Drinking PBR is usually a good indication that the person is a pretentious wanker.