Quote from: Sigmund;415903whether we like it or not, some issues have different weight socially than others. Racism is a very heavy issue for a very large number of people who are still very sensitive about it.

You mean as opposed to feminism or atheism, or any number of political views - topics which Pundit inveighs against weekly?

Again, this is creating artifical categories of speech dependent on whom it offends.

Openly attack feminism: "free speech!"
Mock racists: "*gasp* that's offensive to minorities!"

Quote from: Sigmund;415903Pundit has the right to decide not to allow certain subjects, whether they're related to the topic of the forum or not. ...ultimately it is his to do with as he pleases.

Absolutely, and doing so completely erases his claim to being a believer in free speech.

Quote from: Sigmund;415903We are, however, much more free to speak our minds than any of the other places involving RPGs (and most other forums of any kind that I've frequented).

A point I've made twice already in this thread.

Quote from: Sigmund;415903You once again seem to be confusing "free speech" with "say and post any fucking thing I want"

Nope.  See "artificial categories", above.

Quote from: Sigmund;415903However, you have been allowed to bitch about how Pundit has handled things for how long now? Months, if I remember correctly. I'm sure it annoys him, but you're still here. If you tried even a small measure of that at other RPG sites, how do you think they would handle it? Once again I'm left asking, if it's so horrible on this forum, why are you still here?

Strawman, and I'm pretty sure you know it.

Quote from: Sigmund;415903Do you fancy yourself a crusader here to right wrongs and free all of us poor oppressed souls from Pundit's tyranny? I'm not asking that to be a dick, it's just the way you're coming across to me. We get that you're unhappy with how Pundit handled your post, but do you really think at this point that continuing to rant about it is going to change anyone's mind?

Now you're just being angry.  My objection is to Pundit's hypocrisy and grandiosity in claiming to defend free speech against political correctness, not the way this site is administered.  I'm not going to keep saying it.

Quote from: Hairfoot;415902If I posted a link to any of those without comment, as I did with the white-power D&D, hilarity and dozens of posts would ensue.  But - oh, my fucking god - link to an identically laughable and bigoted project by racists and you can practically hear the sphincters snapping shut while Pundit crosses another item off the list of Approved Thought Content.

Look (assuming that's what you're aluding to), it really boils down to a very, very simple idea: linking to Stormfront is always a bad idea. Even when it's about having a laugh at the expense of the people who actually like that site (shudders). I'm sure the RPG Site doesn't want to be linked as a referrer to that site, for very obvious reasons.

Stormfront has people on it who actively plot and occasionally carry out terrorist attacks in the United States and around the world. It's not that they are conservatives or racists that make linking to the site a terrible idea, they are criminals. Dangerous, violent criminals who are on the Interpol watch list.

You wouldn't post a link to Pirate Bay on here whether you agree with their politics or not. At least, not if you expected the modhammer to not come down on your post and at least delete the link. Why would you expect the results to be any different posting a link to a forum where people actively plot the violent overthrow of western civilization?

-Frank

Precisely.

SHORT version:

 Hairfoot, It was a dumb and stupid idea to have a link to that site.


- Ed C.

The RPG Site - dedicated to the freeish expression of most ideas.

:hatsoff:

Quote from: Hairfoot;415912You mean as opposed to feminism or atheism, or any number of political views - topics which Pundit inveighs against weekly?

Again, this is creating artifical categories of speech dependent on whom it offends.

Openly attack feminism: "free speech!"
Mock racists: "*gasp* that's offensive to minorities!"


Absolutely, and doing so completely erases his claim to being a believer in free speech.


A point I've made twice already in this thread.


Nope.  See "artificial categories", above.

 
Strawman, and I'm pretty sure you know it.



Now you're just being angry.  My objection is to Pundit's hypocrisy and grandiosity in claiming to defend free speech against political correctness, not the way this site is administered.  I'm not going to keep saying it.

Here's the thing, when you get down to it. While I don't completely agree with you, it doesn't really matter. You can bandy about "strawman" this and "hypocracy" that, but in the end this site belongs to RPGPundit. We are in his house. He can and will do and say whatever he wants. There's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing I can do about it. He can be a hypocrite if he wants. He can make any kind of claims he wants. Whether you agree with him or not, like him or not, believe him or not, it's his site. As for the "artificial" catagories of speech, they exist, artificial or not, and Pundit certainly didn't create them. You don't have to like it, but I doubt if there's much you can do about it. Once again, you can call it a strawman argument and all that does is lead the rest of us to believe that you don't know what a strawman argument is, but "Freedom of Speech" does not mean you can express any sort of idea you want. This website is not a democracy, and certainly not an anarchy. We can enjoy the ability to call each other on things, get pissed off, act like assholes, and bitch at the site owner. However, he has decided, and rightly in my opinion, that there are certain topics which are not welcome even here. I will say it again once more, you don't have to like that, but there isn't a fucking thing you can do about it, and continuing to bitch about it every chance you get is getting old. That's why I likened you to a crusader, you just can't seem to let it go. If it really, honestly bothers you that much, there's the entire rest of the internet to look at without going off about the same shit over and over again on this forum owned by someone you hate so much.

Quote from: Werekoala;415924The RPG Site - dedicated to the freeish expression of most ideas.

:hatsoff:

As it should be

Quote from: Hairfoot;415912Openly attack feminism: "free speech!"
Mock racists: "*gasp* that's offensive to minorities!"

Of course. Because Pundit is very sexist, but much less racist. This has of course toned down a lot since "the Wench" married him. Men become less sexist once they start getting laid regularly by someone who puts up with some of their stupidity, but not all.

As well, the place is male-dominated. It's a bit of a Boy's Club. It is not, however, dominated by any particular ethnic group, since ethnicity is less obvious online than gender.

It's not actually a conspiracy.

As to linking to Stormfront, luckily there exists no equivalent site for sexist males. Stormfront are a group who wish for mass deportations and mass murder of people other than unemployed white losers with unsafe firearms handling practices. I know of no group wishing the same for women or men. If you want to find sexism as vile as the racism at Stormfront, you have to go to Afghanistan or some godforsaken place like that. But they have a small web presence, so we don't run into them online much.

In the end, therpgsite is not a forum of free speech. It's a forum of free speech about rpgs. If you just come here to discuss rpgs you will have no problems. If you are a Bitter Non-Gamer, then you will be as miserable and hated here as you are everywhere else.

Quote from: Benoist;415914I'm sure the RPG Site doesn't want to be linked as a referrer to that site, for very obvious reasons.

Correct. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out either.

Pick another fight, Hairfoot. You're just looking silly right now, as others have before you.

Quote from: Hairfoot;415912You mean as opposed to feminism or atheism, or any number of political views - topics which Pundit inveighs against weekly?

Again, this is creating artifical categories of speech dependent on whom it offends.

Openly attack feminism: "free speech!"
Mock racists: "*gasp* that's offensive to minorities!"

.

If someone made a link to a website famous for advocacy for Rape, I would ban it as well.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;415979Of course. Because Pundit is very sexist, but much less racist. This has of course toned down a lot since "the Wench" married him. Men become less sexist once they start getting laid regularly by someone who puts up with some of their stupidity, but not all.

As well, the place is male-dominated. It's a bit of a Boy's Club. It is not, however, dominated by any particular ethnic group, since ethnicity is less obvious online than gender.

It's not actually a conspiracy.

As to linking to Stormfront, luckily there exists no equivalent site for sexist males. Stormfront are a group who wish for mass deportations and mass murder of people other than unemployed white losers with unsafe firearms handling practices. I know of no group wishing the same for women or men. If you want to find sexism as vile as the racism at Stormfront, you have to go to Afghanistan or some godforsaken place like that. But they have a small web presence, so we don't run into them online much.

And again, if such a site existed, and someone linked to it here, I would block the link for the same reason I blocked the link to the site hairfoot posted.

I love also how he can claim that he wanted to "make fun" of the racists and yet accuses me of being "politically correct" in one breath.

RPGpundit

Quote from: Sigmund;415899I dunno. Some of us put out some serious dps, if he doesn't taunt we might end up pulling agro off him and suffer a wipe. Most of us are squishy

Quote from: Sigmund;415881Except Pundit's the tank. He has to grab agro so the rest of us can dps the mobs down.

This is a thing of beauty

And I also agree with Sigmund on the main point: this is Pundit's house. He sets the rules, and he's under no moral obligation to allow for anything, specially 'anythings' that could be bring legal consequences to the site. But even if his rules were completely insane - say, he forbade us to discuss cooking sites because he thinks they're a part of the Swine War Effort and cooking is gay anyway - he would be in his right to do so.

Ironically, this is the same very reason why I find the obsessive whining about RPG.net staggeringly idiotic. The Mods over there are not obliged to allow anything. If you don't like it there, don't post. No reason to get your pants in a twist.

Which is why I don't say, "if you don't like it here, go away." It's alright to try sticking around to improve things. I happen to disagree that being able to link to Stormfront would improve things, but whatsisface here has the right to say so, just as we have the right to tell him not to be a fuckstick.

There is also a qualitative difference between a website about Topic X which restricts speech about Topic X and everything else, and a website about Topic X which restricts speech about everything else, but leaves Topic X alone.

I expect free speech about cars on a car forum, free speech about gardening on a gardening forum, free speech about politics on a political forum, and free speech about rpgs on an rpg forum. I don't expect free speech about all the other unrelated stuffl if nothing else, it may distract from the point of the site.

It would be okay that the rpg.net mods are a bunch of furry-loving commies fapping to each-other's avatars if only they let normal gamers talk about gaming unhindered.

I think that the misconception here is Free Speech means that there are no consequences for what you say, which is never true.