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RPGPundit Declares Victory: TheRPGsite will thus obviously remain open

Started by RPGPundit, November 02, 2010, 01:09:09 PM

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BWA

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;413781Didn't you mean "just TROLLING around in it"!?!?

Ok, well, maybe a little. But mostly I genuinely appreciate the lunatic majesty of this thread. Come on. Admit it. Most of us are just enjoying the sheer internet-y spectacle, at this point.
"In the end, my strategy worked. And the strategy was simple: Truth. Bringing the poisons out to the surface, again and again. Never once letting the fucker get away with it, never once letting one of his lies go unchallenged." -- RPGPundit

GrimJesta

Quote from: Cranewings;413338Hack master sounds like a completely overemotional pussy.

Which is weird, since "Hackmaster: the game" is gory, uncaring and funny.

Not that I'm agreeing with you that he sounds like an O.E.P., nor am I not. I'm just stating how amused I got to see the words "Hackmaster", "over-emotional" and "pussy" in one sentence, besides "I tried to teach some over-emotional pussy to play Hackmaster and he left in tears after 5 minutes." So yea, HackmasterGeneral, this isn't a stab at you. Just my amusement over semantics.

Quote from: Hairfoot;413346Little-Known Publisher of Unpopular Products for Fringe Hobby Gloats Over Failure of Slightly Better-Known Publisher of Unpopular Products for Fringe Hobby.

Thought this was The Onion for a moment.

Shit when you say it like that it DOES sound like an Onion article...

And Benoist? Excellent exit, good sir. Most excellent exit, stage left. *golf clap* ;)


-=Grim=-
Quote from: Drohem;290472...there\'s always going to be someone to spew a geyser of frothy sand from their engorged vagina.  
Playing: Nothing.
Running: D&D 5e
Planning: Nothing.


GrimJesta

Quote from: FrankTrollman;413584And that's all fascinating. But why should you care?

You should care because Mike Mearls is one of the people who claims to subscribe to at least part of GNS theory. When they were trotting out 4th edition D&D, they really used Gamism, Narrativism, and Simulationism as real terms in their actual puff pieces without a trace of irony or derision. And while they did not use those terms in a manner consistent with having done more than the most cursory skimming of Ron Edwards' actual material, they did nonetheless use enough of the terminology that it seems likely that they were influenced in some way by Forge thought. And indeed, they really did make a game that went out of its way to not appeal on multiple levels, exactly as Forge theory would suggest.

And the result was that a year before they published 4th edition D&D, they announced that they had 6 million D&D players, and this year they announced that they had 1.5 million players. Meaning that over the course of three years, 75% of D&D players jumped ship, and it is entirely possible that Ron Edwards bears partial responsibility for that trend line.
-Frank

Also: I did NOT know Mearls was openly GNS (I say it like an STD). That explains so much!

-=Grim=-
Quote from: Drohem;290472...there\'s always going to be someone to spew a geyser of frothy sand from their engorged vagina.  
Playing: Nothing.
Running: D&D 5e
Planning: Nothing.


mhensley


Benoist

Quote from: GrimJesta;413829And Benoist?
Yup?
Quote from: GrimJesta;413829Excellent exit, good sir. Most excellent exit, stage left. *golf clap* ;)
Thanks. I must admit, I feel very good about my choice right now. :)

Settembrini

The fucked-upped-ness of 4 is such that:

1) AM defending mearls.
Actually, Mearls is a spineless asshole that sucks Ron's balls, who would not stop Ron Edwards from mocking one of their shared buddies all the way during a real-world trip to a con.

2) Ron himself is proud about the influence (albeit incomplete) he has over mearls. Ron said that in person to me in Berlin. AM denies that now, which he did not two years ago.

3) AM is now DEFENDING Forge theory, as long as its "useful" and "non-Ron" (!!!!!)

All just to do one thing: defend 4e from the double accusation of being Ron and Forge influenced.

The logical hoops and rings to keep being the MOST RADICAL and THOROUGH Forger-Hunter in the whole world as well as the most ardent defender of 4e on the globe are astonishing.

Mr. Maw, you maneuvred yourselves into an unholdable position.
If there can\'t be a TPK against the will of the players it\'s not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#321
Quote from: Abyssal Maw;413612Well I guess I'll just cogitate on this when I burn some descriptors and address the premise of my next D&D Adventure, i.e. "is it ok to use combat advantage if your opponent is fighting for a charitable institution". Hopefully I won't end up deprotaganising the players.

Frank, I know you really want to seem smart. But you're a cartoon windbag.

I'm a bit late here (stupid +9.5 time zone, and this thread is moving fast)

D&D 4E isn't infected with narrativism to any extent (I agree with Edwards to this extent: I don't think you can make D&D into a storygame with any of his shared GMing BS, when the game is fiercely competitive - you can't give a D&D player narrative control for a round and expect them not to give their character some huge advantage). Notwithstand the rpg.net people who believe that martial dailies are "narrative".
So, yeah feel free to not address Premise.

However, obviously while GNS is meant to puff up Narrativism primarily, a designer trying to work with it as a guideline will produce something...very different...trying to build a "Gamist" game or a "Simulationist" game.  And building "functioning hybrids" is something a few people are going to try just because its seen as impossible (Riddle of Steel).
Forge ideas are sufficiently rampant that any serious game designer will have encountered them at some point. Maybe reviewing their whole silly Orcus/Flywheel/etc. development scheme would help point a finger at exactly who, but looking at the finished product the influences are IMHO quite apparent. [Other than that I vaguely remember Chris Perkins (I think) pointing fun at suffocation in the 3.5 Rules Compendium in suggestive jargon]

I missed the actual post where Cy crossed the line. Damn. Will miss him as well though I can't say it wasn't fair. I've always found his continuous attacks on Koltar a bit inexplicable.

Cranewings

Martial daily powers are narrative. Actually, I think they are so stupid I can't play the game. I couldn't even take it seriously if only npcs had them. Yeah, anyway, martial dailies, fucking stupid.

RPGPundit

Quote from: skofflox;413802:rotfl:

This coming from a man who recently posted the jem "fuck your mother"?!
Who watches the watchmen?
total hilarity...

Dude, on the one hand, Cylonophile has been undertaking an orchestrated campaign of persecution and off-topic insults against Koltar for YEARS now, apparently over at least THREE different forums.

On the other hand, I don't even remember who I said "fuck your mother" to.  

In other words, they are two completely different situations.  One is cyber-stalking, the other just business as usual on theRPGsite.

RPGPundit
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Cranewings

I had a premonition that cyclon would be gone soon after werekoala made him cry.

Kyle Aaron

Quote from: thedungeondelver;413754Was it rape or was it child molestation victim?  I can't recall, I'm not going to go digging, but I do want to know what, specifically, to hate the man for.
You don't have to go digging, it's in the big list of rpg links.

Gamers are brain-damaged by their early "bad" rpg experiences, impediing their understanding of "story." In this respect, says Uncle Ronny, they are like child sex abuse victims. Basically the point is to explain why people are having fun with games when Uncle Ronny says they cannot be having fun. They only think they're having fun; their judgment is impaired, their perceptions warped by their early damaging experiences.

Put another way, when the facts don't fit your theory, change the facts. Ahem.
The Viking Hat GM
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Benoist

Quote from: Cranewings;413858Martial daily powers are narrative. Actually, I think they are so stupid I can't play the game. I couldn't even take it seriously if only npcs had them. Yeah, anyway, martial dailies, fucking stupid.
They might make sense when you read the description of the PHB power sources very closely, and notice that while things like basic attacks and movement are not derived from power sources, martial powers are derived from the Martial Power Source. Which means basically that, though martial powers are not "magical", i.e. arcane, per se, they are supernatural, affected by a source of power beyond the realms of basic combat moves.

That's how I can explain it to myself. It's right there, on the page, though it's not explicitly explained like many role players would want it to be. This to me, implies that all 4e PCs are basically beyond the realms of mortals from day one. This would be core of any 4e setting I would build from there. Now thankfully, ED&D adresses this to some extent, so I don't need to take this idea to unreasonable levels of make-believe at this point.

Cranewings

Quote from: Benoist;413873They might make sense when you read the description of the PHB power sources very closely, and notice that while things like basic attacks and movement are not derived from power sources, martial powers are derived from the Martial Power Source. Which means basically that, though martial powers are not "magical", i.e. arcane, per se, they are supernatural, affected by a source of power beyond the realms of basic combat moves.

That's how I can explain it to myself. It's right there, on the page, though it's not explicitly explained like many role players would want it to be. This to me, implies that all 4e PCs are basically beyond the realms of mortals from day one. This would be core of any 4e setting I would build from there. Now thankfully, ED&D adresses this to some extent, so I don't need to take this idea to unreasonable levels of make-believe at this point.

I'm not inclined to do mental flips over it. I think they made up the martial power source to make game design easier.

If the book said that all characters were magical and my "fighter" could do the dragon punch and wave motion fist with his neutral chi or something, because we are all exalted, I'd get on board, but WTF is a martial power source?

two_fishes

The whole complaint about martial dailies has always bugged me for being especially tedious. It has always struck me as a kind of rigidity of thinking that gets all verklempt about it. It's never bothered me very much that some rules limitations don't have a direct, in-game fictional correlation. Is it really so hard to simply accept that it is an artificial constraint and then put that knowledge away and play the game? If I needed an explanation, it was enough to say that I, the player, am given the ability to dictate the most opportune moment to execute this move for the character.

xech

The effort to translate a game element as a plot element is not what narrativism is all about. Narrativism is the practice of playing with the sort of game options that are drawn from some plot environment.

What you are talking about 4e is exactly the opposite. As BSJ said. D&D is not narrativist. At all.