I started RPGs with D&D B/X back in the 1980's, when I was around 12 years old.  I find it a bit odd that the OSR Old School Essentials books get so much praise these days, for supposedly making the B/X rules more clear, when I never thought the original B/X books were particularly difficult for 12 year old me to navigate.  I have nothing against the new OSE books, but B/X did a fine job of teaching a generation of kids to play D&D, and I would happily use it today to introduce kids to RPGs.

Quote from: ronwisegamgee;1113418As extremely tempting as it is to incorporate one's children into their hobby, initiating that is selfish.

That seems a very strange statement. Every parent shares their hobbies with their kids; my dad taught me to fix cars, my mom taught me to play chess, my brother taught his kids to hunt, my other brother taught his kids to play the drums, etc. I don't see why gaming, in particular, would be any different from watching football with your kids on Sunday.

Playing DnD with your kids is as old as DnD, in other words if it was good enough for Gygax to do then it is good enough for me.

There's nothing wrong with playing RPGs with your kids as an introduction, but at a certain age, its important for kids to play RPGs with their friends, even if they are playing it "wrong". Sure, they can still play with the geezers, but kids need unstructured time with each other for personal development and RPGing is a great venue for unconsciously developing life skills while just having good safe fun.

Quote from: Razor 007;1113295..Some people are allergic to complexity.  ....

Some people even after trying something, are just not interested, and find the activity boring/silly. There is nothing wrong with that.


But I feel that all too often in this hobby there is a failure to recognize the reality that not all people are of equal intelligence.

Quote from: ronwisegamgee;1113418As extremely tempting as it is to incorporate one's children into their hobby, initiating that is selfish. ....

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1113436That seems a very strange statement. Every parent shares their hobbies with their kids; my dad taught me to fix cars, my mom taught me to play chess, my brother taught his kids to hunt, my other brother taught his kids to play the drums, etc. I don't see why gaming, in particular, would be any different from watching football with your kids on Sunday.

I'm with hedge on this. Children need adult guidance. Looking back, I wish my father had made more of an effort to include me in his hobbies when I was younger.

I also agree with this:

Quote from: Spinachcat;1113452There's nothing wrong with playing RPGs with your kids as an introduction, but at a certain age, its important for kids to play RPGs with their friends, ....

I feel it is also important for kids to transition into play with their peer group.

I remember when I was young that you just don't feel like you can quite have real fun with your friends when there are too many adults around.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1113452There's nothing wrong with playing RPGs with your kids as an introduction, but at a certain age, its important for kids to play RPGs with their friends, even if they are playing it "wrong". Sure, they can still play with the geezers, but kids need unstructured time with each other for personal development and RPGing is a great venue for unconsciously developing life skills while just having good safe fun.

Hey, a mature sensible attitude!
Yeah, my son was in no way harmed playing RPGs with me, but I did encourage him to play with his peer group. The main result is he sees just what an incredibly good GM I am, but still worthwhile.

An aside - from what he tells me, age 12 he has finally achieved that 'unstructured time with each other for personal development' by walking home from school with his friends rather than them take the bus - gives them 45 minutes to actually be themselves and mess about, without adults looking over their shoulder. The lack of unsupervised time is a huge problem for children these days, and school break times (and pre-school start time) are only a partial solution.

Quote from: Jaeger;1113481But I feel that all too often in this hobby there is a failure to recognize the reality that not all people are of equal intelligence.

I certainly get extremely hostile responses on gamer bulletin boards if I mention this. I'll probably get one now.

Quote from: S'mon;1113524I certainly get extremely hostile responses on gamer bulletin boards if I mention this. I'll probably get one now.

What, you're telling me every single gamer doesn't have a 160 IQ???

Quote from: Jaeger;1113481I feel it is also important for kids to transition into play with their peer group.

I remember when I was young that you just don't feel like you can quite have real fun with your friends when there are too many adults around.

I started playing D&D with my peers when I was 14. When I was 16, I started going into MIT to play, I was actually invited to join the MITSGS by college students after running a game at one of their conventions. I also had a few older gamers play in my games at various times and started participating in The Wild Hunt APA. It's worth pointing out that Peter Aronson was a teenager when his Illusionist class was published.

Of course for the most part, the adults were not the parents of the kids (there was one father who brought his kids in).

Of course I'm not sure teenage participation in a college gaming club would fly today... Or teenagers going to SF conventions by themselves and paying some dude who had a credit card for crash space in his hotel room...

I think at least some of the game tables I've seen at game stores have had both kids and adults. But again, probably in most cases not the parents of the kids.

If the kids are interested, I really don't think it's a problem for kids to do stuff with their parents. How many kids who hunt do so with someone other than their parents?

Frank

Quote from: Brad;1113543What, you're telling me every single gamer doesn't have a 160 IQ???

The Politically Correct response is "Intelligence doesn't exist, you NAZI!!!!!"

Quote from: Spinachcat;1113452There's nothing wrong with playing RPGs with your kids as an introduction, but at a certain age, its important for kids to play RPGs with their friends, even if they are playing it "wrong". Sure, they can still play with the geezers, but kids need unstructured time with each other for personal development and RPGing is a great venue for unconsciously developing life skills while just having good safe fun.

I agree that kids need unstructured time, and RPGs would be fine for that -- but it's not like RPGs *have* to be that unstructured time.

My son is playing RPGs with his peers now in college - but he never had a peer RPG group when he was in grade school. His friends just weren't into tabletop RPGs. For him growing up, RPGs were a thing he did with grownups, and that's fine. He did other things with his peers.

Quote from: S'mon;1113524I certainly get extremely hostile responses on gamer bulletin boards if I mention this. I'll probably get one now.

There are boards that do not get hostile responses?  Even the Knitting Board has Nazis.

Quote from: S'mon;1113523An aside - from what he tells me, age 12 he has finally achieved that 'unstructured time with each other for personal development' by walking home from school with his friends rather than them take the bus - gives them 45 minutes to actually be themselves and mess about, without adults looking over their shoulder. The lack of unsupervised time is a huge problem for children these days, and school break times (and pre-school start time) are only a partial solution.

I agree with you. It is one of the biggest differences I see between my nephew's life and my own childhood. My nephew goes to school, and then to some kind of structured after-school thing until his parents pick him up. He gets home at 5-5:30 and then has homework to do, then dinner, and often there is not that much free time after dinner (he still goes to bed pretty early).

As a child I got home much earlier, and would have much more time to spend on my own.

As for whether you should introduce your kids to RPGs, of course you should. Just like you would play board games with them, or video games. If it sparks an interest with them, the kid will quickly branch out on his own. And there is value in being able to show them how to interact with other gamers in an RPG. You can teach them what not to do, and why, and they will have better times playing with others their age as a result.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1113317I think there is definitely something to be said for parents asking themselves why they are trying to get their kids into gaming. I don't think I would have been as intrigued by gaming if the first RPGs I saw as a kid were targeted towards young children. That said, I am also sure the D&D cartoon and the D&D toys, helped initiate some of my early interest.

Well, toys and accessory-products are a different thing.